Jess: 0:00

My great-grandma, nellie, had big boobs, and I think that's probably where I get it from. But now that's what we call. Boobs is Nellies.

Rob: 0:09

Really.

Jess: 0:10

Yeah, they're Nellies, they're not boobs. That's what she went down in history for. Good old great-grandma Nellie.

Rob: 0:16

Hannah, how's your Nellies?

Hannah: 0:19

Honey, that's for a leader conversation.

Jess: 0:22

That's for our rated X podcast.

Hannah: 0:29

Hello Wanderers. I'm Hannah and I'm Jess, and this is Wicked Wanderings, Hello Jess.

Jess: 0:38

Hello Hannah, Are you ready? Born ready? I love me some mental health.

Hannah: 0:43

Ready to talk about Nellie Thought that would rhyme, but that doesn't really rhyme.

Jess: 0:48

Your voice is very sultry. Yes, I do, Hannah. Please talk about Nellie. Please talk about Nellie.

Hannah: 0:55

I've been listening to Tiffany audio books with Joe Arden.

Jess: 0:58

Oh my.

Hannah: 1:01

If you know Arden. Si. So I am taking a break from the book Mad America because I found this book on TikTok, of course, and it is called Ten Days in the Madhouse and it's all about this woman called Nellie Bly and her story and she wrote it and it's a very short book, very, very short, but it's her article.

Jess: 1:25

Also, can I just say that I am so happy that you went down a little rabbit hole.

Hannah: 1:31

I did.

Jess: 1:32

So I'm not the only one.

Hannah: 1:33

I couldn't pass it up.

Jess: 1:34

It gives me joy.

Hannah: 1:36

I couldn't pass it up Because I don't think it's a well-known book or story and she's very inspiring. Oh, inspiring, yes, because she was a woman in 1887. And she was a investigator journalist from the world newspaper and they asked her to go undercover to Bellevue Hospital in New York.

Jess: 1:58

Oh yeah, so she was like ahead of her time really for women. Yes, yes, I think so.

Hannah: 2:06

First, I just want to say how fucking amazing it is that a woman, not even the turn of the century, was asked to do this, just saying Maybe it was because she would be believable as insane. And I also bring that up because it's like if this was a man, would he have such an easy time, right, yeah, so let's talk about Nellie Bly. Nellie Bly was approached to do this piece by her superiors. She then asked the obvious question of how will you get me out Right, which is a very good question You're not going to leave me there, right?

Hannah: 2:42

And the response she got was I do not know, but we will get you out if we have to, and we'll tell you who you are and for what purpose. You feigned insanity, just only get in. So I was like get in, we'll get you out. Wow, very trusting Ms.

Jess: 2:53

Nellie Bly.

Hannah: 2:54

Yes, I thought so too, and Nellie began to practice being crazy. She watched herself in the mirror and the mannerism. She had to make sure she was playing the part right, which I was like I tried to imagine that. Yeah, in this part of the book she did make the point that when she was in the asylum she did act normal. So she acted all crazy to get in and then, once she got in, she acted normal and she was still left in there and people said she was crazy, which I think that was really interesting.

Rob: 3:18

Yes, I thought it was an interesting point to make, so I will be quoting from the book Again.

Hannah: 3:23

It's called 10 Days in the Madhouse by Nellie Bly. It's a really, really short book but I was really inspired by the read. I think it's totally worth to pick up, especially if you have a reading goal and you want something that's non-fiction. It's a nice short book to read. I have two more books to reach my 50 book goal for the year.

Jess: 3:41

I'm so proud of you. That's why I've been busting out the audio books, anyway, as you were. So I will be quoting from the book, but I will let you know when I do quote.

Hannah: 3:50

So here I am going to quote. Sorry, I know that was a lot of like. I'm going to quote and then I quote I love you.

Jess: 4:00

It was a lot of fun. I love you. It was a long week at work.

Hannah: 4:07

Words Okay, but here let me say one thing. From the moment I entered the insane ward on the island, I made no attempt to keep up the assumed role of insanity. I talked and acted just as I do in ordinary life. It's strange to say, the more sanely I talked and acted, the crazier I was thought to be by all except one physician, whose kindness and gentle ways I shall not soon forget. Just thought that was really interesting.

Jess: 4:30

So she acted normal and was assumed that she was crazy. Because she was acting normal Makes sense.

Hannah: 4:37

She knew she would have to leave her home behind. So she decided to enter a temporary home for single working women. So she left her home behind. She found a house that took in women that would pay to room and board there, basically. So she made herself look like she was quote dreaming and quote far off expressions, like kind of just like dazing out. She was told by the woman in charge of the home that she would have to share a room, which she was excited for because that person could report back of her being crazy To get other people to think she was crazy. She call other women in the home crazy, so she'd be like that woman's crazy, that woman's crazy, and kept saying how sad she was during meal times and social hours.

Hannah: 5:17

The other women began to be scared of her. Okay, kind of get that. One woman, a Mrs Kane, said she would bunk with her and show Nelly kindness. So she was supposed to bunk with this other woman but they were so petrified of her that like I don't want to sleep with her, like she's scaring me. So this woman, mrs Kane, was just very nice and gentle. She's like I'm just going to show this girl kindness, which in the end she felt really bad afterwards that Mrs Kane had to deal with her like this, because the woman was trying to be nice and Nelly's like oh my gosh, I have a job to do, so this poor woman's dealing with this. Nelly stayed up all night staring at the wall to cause unease in the room in the house.

Jess: 5:53

Nelly says that she totally went with it. Yes, she did.

Hannah: 5:57

Nelly says that while some women were afraid of her, others would tease her and poke at her with questions and statements to get her riled up. One thought I had during this part of the book which is kind of what you brought up, jess was what a man had such an easy time being labeled as crazy.

Jess: 6:13

Probably not.

Hannah: 6:14

Probably not right In the morning, the women of the house decided to have the police called and Nelly was brought before a judge that then made the final judgment she would be heading to Bellevue. She then was checked by doctors, who then checked her tongue, checked her pulse and heart and her pupils. One of the doctors was convinced she was using Belladonna.

Jess: 6:35

Really yes. Did they check her for a teat though?

Hannah: 6:38

Yeah, no teat, no they rather check her tongue, which I'm not following. The tongue thing, I kind of understand the pupils because you can see if someone's on drugs, I guess, and the pulse and heart rate, with the tongue thing I wasn't sure about. She met other women that were being sent to Bellevue and one woman said she was sick from overwork. I think I fall into the category.

Jess: 7:02

I was gonna say like a lot of women do.

Hannah: 7:06

The nurses tried taking money from her because they said the others would take it from them anyways. So you might as well just give it to me. Nelly had several doctors look at her and one even asked if she was a woman of the town. So like a Hoochie.

Jess: 7:19

Yeah, a prostitute yeah.

Hannah: 7:22

Nelly said, quote I felt sure now that no doctor could tell whether people were insane or not, so long as the case was not violent Terrible sleeping conditions, food was cold and inadequate and the heat could not be turned on until October, which I'm thinking like, oh, that's fine, but I'm thinking of the type of buildings they had. They probably had no insulation and they are on the island in the middle of Manhattan, so it must have been with the sea and everything. It must have been pretty cold. One girl stated she was there for nervous stability and in my research this could be caused by stress and overeducation in the middle class.

Jess: 7:56

Yeah, so send me to mental asylum because yes.

Hannah: 8:04

Nelly was then put on a boat to Blackwells Island With the other women. Nelly said in comparison, how much easier would it be to walk to the gallows than to this tomb of living horrors? That was deep. Yeah, deep Nelly. This woman is deep. Nelly observed a woman that did not speak English and could not plead her case of sanity. Nelly says and I'm gonna quote from the book but here was a woman taken without her own consent from the free world to an asylum and they're given no chance to prove her sanity, confined, most probably for life, behind asylum bars, without even being told in her language the why and wherefor. Compare this with a criminal who has given every chance to prove his innocence. Who would not rather be a murderer and take the chance for a life than be declared insane without hope of escape?

Jess: 8:50

Can you imagine that happening to you? Like going to America thinking you're gonna get a new life, yep, and then you get put in that shitty place Right and you have no control, oh my God.

Hannah: 9:03

And there was actually another woman in the book that she brought up that again didn't speak much English and I guess she came to the asylum because she liked men too much, and so the nurses would pick and prod her and be like do you want that doctor, do you like that doctor? And she would just say yes, because I think in her head she was like, yeah, he's a nice man. And they're like, well, you can't have him. Like they just taught her, and she'd be like I don't know what's going on. So I just think it's so cruel, so cruel, and with that we're gonna take a short break.

Jess: 9:36

Thank you, lynn from Springfield. Thank you, lynn, and thank you Courtney from Palmer Amber from Idaho and Heather from New Jersey and Chelsea from Utah. Thank you everybody.

Hannah: 9:53

And if you want to donate, just go to WickedWanderingS Podcastcom and help us keep doing this thing where we're talking to mics and doing this. Say, fuck that shit.

Jess: 10:04

Yeah, yeah Cheers. A sincere expression of gratitude to our esteemed patrons Lynn from Massachusetts, heather from New Jersey, courtney from Massachusetts and Chelsea from Utah for their generous monthly contributions. Their support fuels the engine of our investigative endeavors here at Wicked Wanderings.

Hannah: 10:28

You too, can become a valued patron and unlock a realm of exclusive content by supporting our mission for as little as $3 a month. Your contribution sustains our commitment to delivering high quality content.

Jess: 10:40

Visit WickedWanderingsPodcastcom and click on the support tab to join the ranks of dedicated patrons like Lynn, heather, courtney and Chelsea. Your investment not only keeps our podcast thriving, but also ensures you are at the forefront of intriguing discoveries.

Hannah: 10:56

Thank you for considering this opportunity to deepen your engagement with Wicked Wanderings. Your support is paramount in enabling us to continue our journey into the realms of mystery and true crime. And now back to the show Witchcraft. Okay, go Cain, go Cain. Meals were every man for themselves. One woman stole from others and wolfed down their portions. Showers were gang style, where women had no dignity but were treated like cattle. The nurses would scrub roughly and even the women that were sick got ice cold baths and shown no compassion. They were told they were receiving charity and should be grateful for what they got. They shared towels as well, so if any woman had blemishes or something worse, it was shared through open sores on the face or elsewhere, probably Gross. They were given walks around the grounds, but some group of women were chained together and not given freedom to roam. Why, I don't know. I mean, they're on an island so there's not really many places you can go.

Jess: 11:57

Right, they just wanted to be ticks, yep.

Hannah: 12:01

Douche canoes. I'm going to quote. I asked some of them to help tell how they were suffering from the cold and insufficiency of clothing, but they replied that the nurses would beat them if they were told so they weren't. They knew they couldn't talk about anything.

Jess: 12:15

Were the nurses women? Yes, so these women were just being bitches to these supposed mentally and ugh.

Hannah: 12:24

Anili says. As I passed a low pavilion where a crowd of helpless lunatics were confined, I read a motto on the wall which said while I live I hope the absurdity of it struck me forcibly. I would have liked to put above the gates that opened the asylum he who enters here, leave with hope behind. That's depressing. I just feel like Nellie got it. Man, she, Nellie's usually do, yes. So another part to this is that she said to take a perfectly sane and healthy woman, shut her up and make her sit from 6am until 8pm on straight back benches. To now allow her to talk or move during these hours, give her no reading and let her know nothing of the world or its doings, give her bad food and harsh treatment and see how long we'll take to make her insane. Two months would make her a mental and physical wreck.

Jess: 13:11

I mean a day for me. Yeah seriously right no books.

Hannah: 13:17

Nellie watched us Staff treated these women like a sideshow entertainment. She said at this I saw a misgroup. First of all, her name is misgroup. Sit down on her, she sounds like a bitch, I know right. Sit down on this woman and run her cold hands over the woman's face Old woman, by the way and down inside the neck of her dress. At the old woman's cry she laughs savagely, as did the other nurses, and repeated her cruel action that day. The old woman was carried away to another ward.

Jess: 13:50

Like what the fuck? I think that there is a special place in hell for those nurses. Seriously, this is just and I hope that's where they all are Getting that shit done to them. Fucking puttnobs, Fucking puttnobs. They're probably descendants. Sounds like the Puritan thing to do, just saying.

Hannah: 15:42

And again with the treatment of the elderly. She talks about this woman, miss Grady, who said Shut up you, hussy, said Miss Grady, as she caught the woman by her gray hair and dragged her shrieking and pleading from the room. She was also taken to the closet and her cries grew lower and lower and then ceased. The nurse returned to the room and Miss Grady remarked that she had settled the old fool for a while. I told some of the physicians of the occurrence that they did not pay any attention to it. Of course they didn't. During this, nellie was trying to gather as much information as she could. She was not sleeping, as the nurses wanted, so they wanted to give her a sedative.

Rob: 16:17

Cocaine.

Hannah: 16:20

She would not take it, so they brought the doctor. She would not take it for the doctor, so he threatened her with the needle. She decided swallowing was better than a needle because she could still get rid of it by swallowing, by throwing up. No thought on that. Great, let's move on.

Hannah: 16:34

Well, I was going to make a swallowing comment, but I decided not to so another first hand account was of a woman named Mrs Cotter and she said the remembrance of that is enough to make me mad for crying. The nurses beat me with a broom handle and jumped on me, injuring me internally, so that I should never get over it. Then they tied my hands and feet and, throwing a shield over my head, twisted it tightly around my throat so I could not scream, and that's put me in a bathtub filled with cold water. They held me under until I give up every hope and became senseless. I had other times. It took hold of my ears and beat my head on the floor and against the wall. That's horrible. And they pulled out my hair by the roots. They will never grow in again. Mrs Cotter here Show me proof of her story the dent in the back of her head and the bare spots where the hair had been taken out by the handful.

Jess: 17:22

Like I said, special place in hell just for these nurses.

Hannah: 17:26

This is like a different kind of heavy yeah. So for some of the people they injected so much morphine and chloral that the patients are made crazy. And she says I have seen the patients wild for water from the effect of the drugs and the nurses were refused it to them. I have heard women beg for a whole night for one drop and was not given them. I myself cried for water until my mouth was so parched and dry that I could not speak, which makes sense, because a lot of those pills do make you extremely dehydrated. Women got in trouble for speaking their grievances to the doctors that would come by, about how they were saying or the state of the accommodations. The nurses would give them shit afterwards. The women were instructed to remove all clothing, fold it and place it before their door and then enter their room when they would sleep, which I don't understand why they had to sleep naked.

Jess: 18:11

Right, yeah, I sorry, so many thoughts were going on in my head trying to figure out like what nasty person made that rule and what Yep.

Hannah: 18:24

Angers me. Nellie did only 10 days at Blackwell, but I'm sure it felt like an eternity. Oh, I'm sure she said the insane asylum on Blackwell's Island is a human rat trap. It is easy to get in, but once there is it is impossible to get out. I had intended to have myself committed to the violent wards which were the lodge and retreat. When I got the testimony of two sane women and could give it, I decided not to risk my health and hair, so I did not get violent.

Jess: 18:51

So I just thought no, well, I have a question, but I feel like you're going there.

Hannah: 18:56

Nellie was brought before a jury to state her sanity, who she was and why she did it. Because of this, a sequence of events took place. They went back to Blackwell Island without informing anyone they were coming. Somehow they did find out an hour prior to the arrival of a rep, by some men in power, so like there was a doctor and, I think, a lawyer she said that ended up showing up. They admitted the food was not great. They could not speak to how often the water was changed for bass and how they needed better doctors that were actually competent.

Hannah: 19:25

When touring the kitchen, salt was seen in barrels and the kitchen was actually clean, so they had time to make it look nicer. The disturbing part was most of the women she met and became close to she heard all their stories were gone. They were either transferred sick and dying of paralysis, or with family, supposedly. It is really hard for me to believe this and how convenient all of this is, but I will say that Nellie did something great for a person of her time, and being a woman at that.

Jess: 19:53

So how did she get out, did she just? Oh, they went in and got her, yeah, so in the book.

Hannah: 19:59

Well, really it's, it's her newspaper article. But she stated that, uh, she was told by it was either the nurses or the doctors that she, her people, came to pick her up and, um, then she's had to go before a jury and say, okay, no, really, my name is Nellie Blacks, and she gave a synonym and, uh and uh, she said this is why I did it and that's why the jury is like well, we want to go and look at this place now and then went over there.

Jess: 20:26

Whoever that mole was that warned them, I know needs to be with those nurses and how.

Hannah: 20:33

And she did want the jury to see these women that were living in these conditions and they got to talk to a couple of them. All of a sudden, all these women on the ward are gone, conveniently, conveniently, very, very sketchy. So I'm curious how this changed Nelly afterwards, because you can't go through something like that and not be changed. Yeah, for sure, because, yes, it was a project, yes, she was undercover, but you think about even cops that go under cover.

Hannah: 21:05

Yeah, they experienced very traumatizing things so I can't imagine how it affected her life, like her lasting effects, did I say?

Jess: 21:13

anything in a no.

Hannah: 21:16

No, there's one more part I have to read, but like the end of her story is done, but it's all about I think it's miscellaneous articles that she wrote. Yeah but they have pictures of her in here from like 1888 to 1922. It was very, very interesting. I really, I really give her props for what she did.

Jess: 21:41

Yeah, I wouldn't have done that.

Hannah: 21:43

So I know it was a shorter episode, but oh, it's very interesting. I feel like we had to talk about Nelly.

Jess: 21:48

I'm sorry, I'm still laughing Every time we are Nelly, my great grandma Nelly. But yeah, thanks, that was I've never heard of it Sounds vaguely familiar. Yeah, but I don't think I. I don't know, but it was really good story. I don't think I could have done it so way to go, god no.

Hannah: 22:07

And then I tried looking up Blackwell Island. I don't think it's there anymore, even the building, because I could be wrong. But I looked it up and I couldn't find anything. Because I was like, oh, next time I go to Manhattan I would love to go over to see if it's still there, but I don't think it's there anymore.

Jess: 22:27

That's sad. Yeah, I mean not sad. Yes, that building should be destroyed. Yes, yeah. So I just makes me angry. Sorry, I keep interrupting. No, no, no, you're fine, you're fine.

Hannah: 22:40

So yeah, I'll probably have one more episode for mental health and then, I don't know, I'll take you from there. I feel like it's just an ever-morphing podcast, since just you know we're winging it.

Jess: 22:51

Yeah, we're winging it. We're pulling all of this out of our ass.

Hannah: 22:55

I would like to do like a poll or something to see people's favorite episodes.

Jess: 22:59

That would be. I mean, we can just look at the views.

Rob: 23:02

Yeah, that's true.

Jess: 23:06

So yes, rob.

Rob: 23:08

I was going to say people can email us at wicked wanderings podcast at gmailcom. You can email us and let us know which episode is your favorite.

Jess: 23:18

And also if you have any recommendations for episodes. Yes, please.

Rob: 23:23

Yes, I was actually thinking about that recently. If you have a case that you want us to do a story of an episode of email us.

Jess: 23:32

Yeah.

Rob: 23:32

And let us know wicked wanderings podcast at gmailcom.

Jess: 23:36

Because we'd love to do them. Yes, we would. I have had a few. I mean, obviously, the one we just recorded.

Hannah: 23:42

And we have one coming up that was semi suggested through your family, right yeah?

Jess: 23:47

Our next episode will be a very personal story.

Rob: 23:50

Yeah, and it will be our first remote.

Jess: 23:53

Yes, long distance. I'm really sad Because you're not going to be in the room. I know I'm going to have to swear in front of my sister even though she listens. She listens to the podcast Anyways, which is awesome.

Rob: 24:10

Mrs.

Jess: 24:10

Heather Heather. Yeah, she's the oldest.

Rob: 24:13

Oh nice.

Jess: 24:14

All right, well, thanks y'all. Have a most wonderful Christmas everybody to our wanderers.

Rob: 24:20

Merry Christmas, if you celebrate it, merry Christmas, yes.

Hannah: 24:24

If not, I hope you enjoy the day off, if you can. Yeah, happy holidays.

Jess: 24:28

Happy holidays. Happy holidays.

Rob: 24:31

Happy holidays.

Jess: 24:33

Happy holidays and we did not need this thing along.

Hannah: 24:38

Love you meet it. Bye, Bye. Thanks for listening today. The show wouldn't be possible without our amazing producer and editor, Rob Fitzpatrick, who works tirelessly behind the scenes to bring you the best content.

Jess: 24:51

And a special thanks to Tyga Soundprod for providing the captivating intro music. Cinematic Intro 24.

Hannah: 24:58

And of course, we can't forget the hauntingly beautiful outro music, Rhino's Theme, composed by Kevin MacLeod.

Jess: 25:04

If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to leave a rating and review on our your favorite podcast platforms like Spotify, apple and YouTube. Your feedback means the world to us.

Hannah: 25:16

Also be sure to follow us on Instagram for behind the scenes splimpses, updates and more thrilling content. You can find us at Wicked Wandering's podcast.

Jess: 25:24

Thank you so much for listening and being part of our Wicked Wandering's community.

Hannah: 25:29

We appreciate each and every one of you Stay curious, keep exploring and always remember to keep on wandering.