Jess: 0:00

A ten, fuck me. And I haven't had that much to drink. I had one beer and one shot, two shots.

Jonathan: 0:08

And one falafel and one falafel. Come on, jess, it was the falafel it's gotta be the falafel it was the falafel, overdid it.

Jess: 0:15

Overdid it. We're never gonna get through this episode. No, we're not. Okay. Focus the the night before Focus Cause. It's your time, chatter, fuck you. All right, are we going to have like a million of me saying fuck you during our episode.

Rob: 0:32

The thing is, when I push it, I mean, it sounds exactly like you're just saying it, right now.

Hannah: 0:36

Yes it does it's so good. Fuck you, fucking putt-nums.

Rob: 0:40

See, I feel like Hannah just said that, yeah.

Jonathan: 0:43

But her lips weren't moving. But did she say that? I don't know.

Hannah: 0:46

I don't know, let's fucking pot numbs. It's the falafel.

Jess: 0:50

The falafel will get you every time Okay.

Hannah: 1:13

Hi, I'm Jess and I'm hannah. Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal encounters and all things spooky. So grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us. This is wicked wanderings. Wicked Wanderings, hello.

Jess: 1:37

Hannah, hello Jessica and hello Jonathan. Hey, welcome back, and always, rob. Hey, what's up? Today we are going to talk about the Villisca axe murders. So, starting this episode, I want to be respectful of the victims.

Hannah: 1:59

Oh, okay.

Jess: 2:01

But also we love recording nights and we giggle when we're together. Yes, and so when we giggle, it's because we're having good times and not about the content.

Hannah: 2:14

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify.

Jess: 2:16

Yeah, true, I just felt like I had to clarify.

Hannah: 2:20

Obviously. That's why we talk about them is for the victims.

Jess: 2:23

Yes, have either of you looked into the velasca x murders?

Hannah: 2:29

no, I didn't, because you were doing an episode and I want to be surprised surprise people where what state was iowa oh no, I looked at uh x murderers in maine.

Jonathan: 2:42

So no, uh velasquez murders victim virgin oh okay, so we're popping jonathan's cherry, but not axe murder cherry, because we talked about lizzie bordo. True, who's my original axe number one?

Hannah: 2:59

which she did do it anyways, but you know.

Jess: 3:02

That's another episode that we've already done.

Hannah: 3:06

Listen always Lizzie, Always a Lizbeth fan.

Jess: 3:10

Yes, yes, we are. I can't wait to go stay the night.

Hannah: 3:13

Dude, we gotta freaking plan that man.

Jonathan: 3:15

We have to figure that out.

Hannah: 3:16

Anytime.

Jess: 3:17

Let's schedule Same state. Let's schedule it, I know, all right, all right. On monday, june 10th 1912, at 4 30 am, mary peckman was getting up to do her morning chores. Terrible last name and a terrible time to wake up to do chores what year was this? 1912 sorry same year, the titanic sank oh, wow some perspective what month was it? June, so two months later. Yeah, wait April.

Jonathan: 3:47

Yeah, april. Yeah, april 14th to 15th 1912.

Jess: 3:50

Definitely a different life back then. Thank God, because who wants to wake?

Jonathan: 3:55

up at 4.30 to do chores. Who wants to wake up? Anymore, who wants to do chores I?

Jess: 4:01

mean, by 5 am she was outside doing her housewife duties and noticed that her neighbors, gross right Of 15 years, the Moores, had yet to start their day. They were usually out by this time and she figured maybe they overslept and she would just keep an eye on the house. So for the next two hours Mary was in and out of the house and by 7 am she started to get the feeling that something was off. The curtains were drawn. She hadn't seen any lights, no movement, no sound of any kind. She noticed the livestock growing restless. The cows needed milking, the chickens needed to be let out. So Mary went over to the house and knocked. There was no response. She tried the front door and it was locked. And I'm getting the feeling that this was a town where people didn't really lock their doors and she ended up letting the chickens out.

Jess: 5:00

And then about 8 am she called the home of Ross Moore, who was Joe Moore's brother. So Joe Josiah Moore was the man of the house that she was, of her neighbors. She was able to reach his wife, jessie, who was like telephone, like the game apparently this morning who was able to reach Ross, who in turn reached out to Joe's store to see if he had been there. And he was able to reach Ross, who in turn reached out to Joe's store to see if he had been there. And he was able to reach Ed Selle, joe's senior employee, who said that he had been waiting for Joe to go to the country to solicit sales, but he had never shown. So Joe actually owned a farming implement store, so they actually had a contract with John Deere, who I didn't know was present around 1912, and sold equipment to farmers. Ed headed to the Moore home and met with Mary in their yard and he agreed that the Moores weren't there. Okay, thanks, ed. And he went and fed the horses and then went back to the store.

Jess: 6:05

Ross eventually showed up, just barely missing Ed, and he walked around the house trying to look in all the windows but noticed, like Mary did, that all the curtains were drawn. He pounded on the windows and shouted and knocked on all the doors, with no response. Now, this is something that is different in some of the sources about the key, and I don't know if they just skimmed it over in other sources, not thinking it was important, but I actually think that this part is a little necessary, and I'll explain why? By Roy Marshall, which is the main source I used for this episode, mentions that the door latch on the front was a simple one and that one of Ross's keys fit, but other sources have said that the Ross had a key to the house and the front door of the house could only be open this way, and so I wonder if the killer did the same thing, like if it was a simple latch and he had a key that would actually fit, instead of like having a key to the house.

Hannah: 7:06

I mean, I can't imagine in 1912 that they had a bunch of different keys. Yeah, a locksmith. That was like, oh, this is different than Eddie down the street.

Jonathan: 7:16

Yeah, exactly I mean skeleton keys are really simple very basic. So when you say Ross had a key that fit, was he the one that was banging?

Jess: 7:27

on the windows. Yeah, and that was his brother, cool. So I mean I guess it's possible for him to have a key, but I'm I'm more likely going with the fact that he had a key that fit, that worked, that he was able to open the front door.

Jonathan: 7:39

I think that's a really good thought yeah.

Jess: 7:41

Or the other possibility is that the moores were just like everyone else in and left their doors unlocked for the murderer to come in. But anyway, random thought by jess, you're welcome. So ross enters the house and is a little surprised by the cleanliness of the parlor or the living room. For you westerners, ross knew that sarah moore was a good housekeeper, but one would think and this is my thought it didn't explain this in the book. But once you're up for the day and going doing chores, yada, yada, your living room or parlor, you know collects things and gets a little dirty throughout the day, especially with kids.

Jonathan: 8:17

Children ruin everything.

Jess: 8:19

They're the worst, so the parlor shouldn't be clean with the hustle bustle of a farm family who is usually out of the house by 5 am. And before continuing with the story, and I just remembered that I drew the house plans out for you, hannah, and I forgot them. Wow, so sad, yeah, but you can it's a simple google search, you can can look it up.

Hannah: 8:43

Oh, wow, okay.

Jess: 8:46

Fuck you. So I'm going to give you a description of their home and we will post a floor plan of the home on our social media, and I even wrote in my notes. Here's one for you, hannah, because I know you're a fan and then I failed you. I apologize. So when you walk in the front door, you will be walking into the parlor, and directly to your right across the room, is a door to an adjoining bedroom. Then, on the same wall as the door, where Rob's face is, is the door to the kitchen. So you'd kind of have to bang a Yui to go into the kitchen and then, once you go into the kitchen, they have a door to the back porch, a pantry and then the stairs to go upstairs.

Hannah: 9:31

So the bedroom doesn't have a door to the kitchen and the living room, right?

Jess: 9:35

No, okay, just the living room, and so you can only get upstairs by going through the kitchen and up the stairs which it goes into the master bedroom. So there's no hallway or anything. It goes directly into the master bedroom and then from the master bedroom you can get into the kids room. So they had four kids.

Hannah: 9:53

So it kind of reminds me of the lizzie borden house and how weird it was.

Jonathan: 9:56

Yeah that's a really good point. Yeah, because there's no, there's very few hallways yeah room after room after room, which is a way, in these houses, to preserve heat yeah, because it's like, excuse me, sis, I'm just going to walk through here.

Jess: 10:20

And there also is a closet that leads to an attic space off of the master bedroom as well that was used for storage. So I hope this makes sense for our listeners, but we'll make sure it's online so if you need a reference when you're listening. And now back to our regularly scheduled program. So Ross enters the home via the front door and walks into the parlor. For Ross, the stillness of the house is ominous and his fear is something. His fear that something is wrong increases, and the only sound in the home is the sound of his footsteps as he crosses the room.

Jess: 10:53

Mary the smart one waits by the front door, and Ross was not prepared for what he saw when he opened the door to the bedroom. It was dark as the curtains were drawn, but even with a little bit of light he had, he could see the sheets drawn tightly to the top of the bed with the forms of two people underneath. There are dark stains at the head of the bed and there's a limb extending awkwardly out from underneath the covers. The room smelled of death and Ross backed away, went outside and told Mary Peckham that it was bad and that she should call the authorities, the bodies of the owner of the home, josiah Moore, 43, his wife Sarah Moore, 38, their four children, herman 11, catherine 10, boyd 7, paul 5, were found on the second floor of the home Notice. I said second floor.

Jess: 11:48

Well what is so extremely sad about this and unfortunate, is that Catherine had two of her friends over to spend the night Sisters Lena Stillinger and Ina Stillinger, 12 and 8 years old. That sucks, so let's get into the family's background to see what we can make sense of, why they became the victims of such a horrific crime. Joe Moore was born in Illinois. His family moved to Iowa when he was still a child. He grew up on a family farm south of Villisca. He married Sarah Montgomery in 1899. He was 31 and she was 26.

Jess: 12:24

Their first son, herman, was born in 1901 and Catherine two years later. Their two-story home was only a few years old and was painfully small for a family of six. Lena and Ina Stillinger were the daughters of JT Stillinger, a wealthy farmer who lived a few miles away. His mother was widowed during the Civil War. When he was 14, she moved with JT and the three other kids to Villisca where she had relatives. She was allotted 40 acres from the government for being a soldier's widow and it was there that she raised her family. Joe grew up farming, first helping, supporting his mother and siblings, and later on, with his own wife and growing family, he eventually acquired a place of his own and grew it to a 400-acre holding known as Dottie Hollow Farm.

Rob: 13:12

Dottie Hollow Farm. Yeah, isn't that cute. That's very cute. Fun fact, my meme's name was Dottie.

Jess: 13:19

Really yeah, like her first name.

Rob: 13:21

Yeah, yeah, dorothy. Everyone called her Dottie.

Jess: 13:25

I was going to ask if that was like her given name.

Rob: 13:27

No, I don't think you can be baptized dotty, but it's cute, hey, you can be baptized whatever name your parents give you. I mean, look at all the celebrities now. What kanye west as uh northwest?

Jonathan: 13:41

and there's kids after game of thrones named calise oh boy it used to be that there were only certain names you were allowed to be baptized.

Hannah: 13:49

Like mary names, there's christian names, yeah margarit, not margo, margie diddy mary john, I mean calise is cool in game of thrones, but it's a whore that's a very cool name.

Jess: 14:01

Side note yeah but it's like dated, like it doesn't stay cool forever. You know what? Jessica jessica, fuck you cocaine. Jessica, jessica, fuck you Cocaine. I'm close to the buttons and you're not.

Rob: 14:19

Hannah could reach across and push the buttons.

Jess: 14:22

Then she'll spill her beer. I have no more beer left. Uh-oh, can you sense the hostility, do you want?

Hannah: 14:30

a beer. No, I don't need any more alcohol.

Rob: 14:33

Thank you, that's a double.

Hannah: 14:34

Never mind that half shot and a half of whiskey I took.

Jess: 14:40

Good thing you're not driving home.

Hannah: 14:41

No, just in my bedroom.

Jess: 14:46

Don't fall off the bed.

Hannah: 14:47

I probably will, but I'll try.

Jess: 14:49

He established a herd of beef cattle and he was known as a hard worker and a bit progressive, so the girls were also from a prominent, well-known family. Is this why they were targeted, or was it just coincidence that the girls were there?

Rob: 15:04

I think it was just coincidence.

Hannah: 15:06

Rob, no one asked you Go ahead, Jess.

Jess: 15:08

It was, after all, a last minute decision on Lena and Ina's part. They were supposed to stay with their grandparents that night, but the streets were dark due to the electricity being shut off, because the city council had a squabble with the electric company, so they shut off the lights that sounds like some third world shit right there, right I mean, it's also only what the early

Jess: 15:30

19 deans so you're lucky to have electricity, yeah and even the house today, which is a like touristy place you can go and do ghost tours. Of course it doesn't have electricity or a bathroom oh no, yeah, no bathroom, love plumbing. What do you?

Jonathan: 15:50

I love plumbing.

Jess: 15:51

Me too, I'm a fan of plumbing.

Jonathan: 15:55

I'm a huge fan.

Rob: 15:55

Huge fan 10 out of 10 recommend. The only time I use an outhouse is when I'm hiking, especially on the Appalachian Trail.

Jess: 16:04

You don't just use a bush.

Jonathan: 16:06

Rob, you're braver than the rest of us. I am a fangirl of Koh kohler.

Rob: 16:12

Faucets by kohler hey, I went on a hike with your brother joseph, and, uh, he used it, so well, joseph's a different breed than we are the night before being the second sunday in june, the family and the stillinger girls attended the annual children's day exercises, the fuck is that?

Jess: 16:31

it's a presbyterian thing. It was a program that sarah moore was in charge of and took a very active role, so it was like a children's religious program that they put on like a wanna. The program was held in the evening in addition to regular sunday school and worship, and it didn't start until 8 pm.

Hannah: 16:53

What A child's. Things start till 8 pm.

Jess: 16:55

Yeah, which seems to me to be a little late.

Rob: 16:58

That's very late. I mean I go to bed at 8 o'clock.

Hannah: 17:04

Same. It's past our bedtime right now.

Jonathan: 17:06

Because it's currently 8.30.

Jess: 17:09

And maybe I mean it seems a little late to me, maybe because I'm a home body and I'm getting old and 8 pm seems like a prime comfy jammies time, especially for younger kids. And hannah, hey, I put on my comfy jammies as soon as I walk in the door.

Hannah: 17:26

Take your bra off, let them breathe. Yep, let the let the nell I just want to free my titties.

Jonathan: 17:33

They just want to be free.

Jess: 17:36

The Moore family and the girls didn't get home from the program until around 1030. And I'd imagine they might have a nightly routine with the animals in the house before they went to bed. If the family didn't get home until 1030 and the neighbor was up at 4 30 and didn't notice anyone around the house, I feel like that doesn't leave very long to murder eight people. I mean, I've never murdered anyone, so I'm not entirely sure how long it would take you're not a straight up douche canoe.

Hannah: 19:35

No, covered your ass there, jess, I mean, I'm not a murderer.

Jess: 19:41

But the monster who did this took the time to dig through the closets for clothing and sheets to hang up on the mirrors and doors, among other things that we will get to. Oh, because he killed someone, yeah so all the mirrors were covered with black cloth so that that makes no sense.

Hannah: 19:59

So he actually gave a shit.

Jess: 20:00

Yeah, and and this is what I'm trying to figure out, like, is it a superstitious thing? Is it him not wanting to see himself, or the act, or whatever?

Jonathan: 20:13

and yeah so yeah, because covering the mirrors is like a tradition and I mean it's still a tradition and I mean it's still a tradition in Jewish households, but that is strange.

Rob: 20:23

Yes, was the killer Jewish.

Jess: 20:26

I don't know.

Jonathan: 20:27

I don't think we want to go down that realm.

Jess: 20:29

It is still unsolved. Oh, spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. All right, so back to the morning of June 10th. The neighbor Mary contacted the authorities and Marshal Hank Horton arrived on scene and searched the house, as members of Joe's family began to show up and they were instructed not to enter the home. Horton stepped into the bedroom attached to the parlor and noticed a lace curtain hung over the glass pane on the bedroom door and, like I just said, there was black cloth covering the mirror. He opened the curtain to let some sunlight in and it was then that he saw the axe leaning up against the wall, which makes me think that these two may have been the last two that were murdered. He went through each room of the house, observing the bodies of each member of the family under the cover of a sheet or clothing and observing the blood splatter on the wall and the ax marks on the ceiling above the beds. He left the house and told those outside not to let anybody in.

Jess: 21:31

At 9 am, dr Lindquist, the coroner, arrived and examined the crime scene. He started in the downstairs bedroom and as he pulled the sheets of the bed he was able to see two young girls, their heads smashed in and unrecognizable. They would eventually be identified as Ina and Lena Stillinger, and the bed was against the wall, and eight-year-old Ina was the closest to the wall. She lay in a natural sleeping position, her nightgown, undisturbed. The investigators thought that she had been killed instantly with the first blow of the axe and then, like the others, been struck several more times after death. In a gray coat, that of a little boy was covering her face, which is what intrigues me, because why Was it remorse? Was the killer someone close to them? Did they not want to see their faces after they did it? Or was the person just a sick bastard?

Rob: 22:27

So they covered the face with a jacket of one of the children.

Jess: 22:31

Yeah, but as we go along, every single person was covered with something Makes you wonder. Lena Stillinger, on the side of the bed at which the murderer stood, was found with her nightgown slid up, no underwear, and her body either moved as a reflexive action in death or drawn down by the killer to that position, one that would be remembered differently by those who were there. There was a report that she was possibly sexually assaulted post-mortem, as her underwear were missing and there was blood on the inside of one of her knees, but Dr Lindquist would eventually testify in court that there was no evidence to suggest that she had been sexually assaulted. It did seem that her body had been pulled down, and I'm thinking mostly to pull off her underwear, which pulled her down the bed because her arms, this douche canoe, wiped the axe down with the underwear and tossed it there, but like there were millions of other things he could have wiped down the axe with, so why the underwear?

Jess: 23:51

The girls, white dresses, were at the foot of the bed with some underclothing and other garments on the floor, and this part is so sad. They were identified by the bibles on the nightstand. Each one had their names on them, and this is is so sad. They were identified by the Bibles on the nightstand. Each one had their names on them. And this is even worse. The girl's mother had called the Moores home that morning and no one answered, and she tried to place a call later and the telephone operator told her that everyone in that house was dead?

Hannah: 24:22

Can you imagine finding out that your child?

Jonathan: 24:23

died that way From an operator. Yeah, that's horrific, right, I would freak out.

Rob: 24:27

That's so upsetting.

Jess: 24:28

It is and, as you can imagine, in a small town, words spread quickly. The next stop was the master bedroom. Like I said, when you walk up the stairs, you walk directly into the master bedroom. Joe was laying on the south side of his bed With his head facing west. He was on his back with his left hand on his chest and his face was caved in. Of all the victims, it seemed that Joe was struck the most and in my opinion I'm thinking get rid of the man first, so he won't be a threat.

Hannah: 24:59

But if he got the brunt of it too, was he the target to begin with?

Jess: 25:03

It's also a possibility. Mrs Moore was also on her back and had deep gashes to her face and head, but the damage seemed less than what happened to Joe. She was cut, but still recognizable, and the top of her skull was crushed and her face was cut. The final stop was the children's room, where there were three beds. Just at the left, when walking into the room, there was a boy, herman, that was lying on his stomach and the top of his head was beaten in. There was a gauze undershirt on the top of his head soaked with blood.

Jess: 25:34

There was another bed in the corner of the room with little girl, which would be Catherine, her head beaten in and the top of her head there was a little dress that was covered with blood splatter and it was partly curled up over her head and the covers were pulled up over her face. On the third bed there were two little boys, boyd and Paul, both of their heads beaten in. There was blood splatter all over the walls and blood all over the pillows, and it didn't look like they had moved at all. So what is so intriguing about this case, I guess, is that they all looked like they were just asleep. Nobody woke up. There was no blood splatter anywhere except for their beds, and they were all laying as though they were all asleep, 't you think some of them would have woken up, I mean, unless there was, like carbon dioxide, poisoning ahead of time or there was multiple people but they didn't have, like any electricity or any heating or couldn't you get carbon dioxide poisoning from fires?

Jonathan: 26:34

only from a guest, jo.

Jess: 26:36

Yeah, I don't know if it's a guest of, and so there is some rumors that you know. Maybe the family had been like drugged before, or maybe there was more than one killer, but there had to have been something, yeah.

Rob: 26:50

I mean, that's what I'm thinking, is there was more than one person.

Jess: 26:54

Unless he was just quick and just and also no way. No way, he was just quick and just. And also, what they think happened was they hit everybody with the blunt end of the axe to kill him and then went back and hit him with the sharp end to kind of finish the job. Dr Lindquist was the first to note something strange in the downstairs bedroom, Near the axe, was a two-pound slab of bacon wrapped in a dishcloth. There was a similar-sized piece in the refrigerator or the icebox for the time. So was the murderer stealing it and dropped it? Or was he using it for something sickly nefarious that we don't want to think or talk about?

Rob: 27:34

No, I'm pretty sure he was hungry.

Hannah: 27:36

Could be Seriously.

Rob: 27:37

Yeah, yeah, he just wanted to make some, you know.

Hannah: 27:40

It's a lot of work A bacon buddy.

Jonathan: 27:42

But he would have had to cook it because at this period of time it would have been raw.

Rob: 27:45

Yes, yes, yes, I'm just kidding.

Jess: 27:48

There was also a bowl on the kitchen table that was filled with bloody water that looked as though the murderer attempted to wash their hands.

Hannah: 28:00

This sounds like a crime that this person did not want to commit but did anyways. How so well, just making sure that they weren't suffering, that it was done in their sleep or in some type of unconsciousness, that their faces were covered, that he cleaned or she, whoever, cleaned up afterwards, because they didn't want to even think about what happened. It just seemed like something that was like all right, I have to do this. For some reason it was a necessity for them, and then either they cared about them or that it was a crime they didn't want to even commit that's a good point.

Jess: 28:29

that's a very good point. Well, thank you. In the hayloft of the barn we'll kind of get into something later that will help that make sense. In the the hayloft of the barn they found hay that had been placed against some hay bales, so loose hay, and what seemed to be a depression in the hay, as though someone had been lying there. And at the depression, where the shoulders and head would be, there was a knot hole in the wood from which the house could be seen. So they were thinking that someone was hiding in the barn watching the family. But they also thought that maybe the person was in the house while the family was away, like came into the house, hid in the closet in the attic space and then came out after they had fallen asleep which would make sense if that's the case and they went after Joe first because he had already be in that room. So they were thinking the closet in the attic space that was attached to the master bedroom but still unknown, I don't know. Doctors agreed the time of death was around midnight or shortly thereafter.

Jess: 29:28

The axe that was used was old and rusty and not particularly sharp. Investigators theorized that the murder had hit them all, like I said, with the blunt end of the axe and then went through again, hitting them with the sharp end. The axe was identified as belonging to the family and it was normally left in the woodshed or by a pile of kindling in the backyard. The doors leading into the house were locked and only the front door could have been locked by someone leaving the house. All of the others were latched from the inside by someone leaving the house. All of the others were latched from the inside. So, like I said, either the family had locked the doors and the murderer had a similar key, or the family had left the doors unlocked and the murderer had locked them so as not to be disturbed.

Jess: 30:08

After the murders, families in the area were scared, and rightfully so. They feared the killer, who seemed to be a murderer at random, might strike again. Men sat up with loaded guns, lamps were left burning all night, neighbors and families would rotate through homes staying together and stayed with people who lived alone, and this affected the whole community. At the time of the murders, 1912, there were no state police, no state criminal investigation agency and it was the attorney general who was the top state law enforcement official. Unfortunately, the staff did not include investigators, and an investigation of this magnitude was outside their skill set. Hannah, wake up. No, I am awake, I'm just thinking I'm staring.

Jess: 30:54

I'm awake.

Rob: 30:56

I got a good theory, but we'll wait till the end.

Jess: 30:58

Their only option, and pretty much the only option at the time, was to hire a private investigator. A theme I noticed in this book is that a lot of these agencies were in it for the money and didn't care and didn't put the victims first. Agencies as in, like the police agencies no, like private agencies, like the Pinkerton's, hire for money money yes, like they're police, but you hire them.

Rob: 31:22

They're not police, but they're private. Yeah, they're private investigators like there are today, but just like pis yeah but they didn't have to get like licenses and stuff like that, I don't know with the state I don't think so.

Jess: 31:35

maybe the agency registered with the state, which could sway the investigation. In my opinion, they hired men from two different agencies, and the one we will talk more about is the Burns Agency, which is the one that is mentioned to be more money driven. But if there can be a silver lining of the Villisca axe murderers, it is that it hastened Iowa's move to a professional state operated criminal investigation agency, and one of the private investigators was James Wilkerson from Texas. Now, he didn't enter the scene until 1914, which was two years after the murders, but he also made the biggest splash and threw around some accusations that may or may not have been supported.

Jess: 32:20

According to Roy Marshall in the book Villisca and I quote, and here I am quoting, and here I am quoting he either solved the mystery despite efforts by a corrupt government official trying to stop him, or he laid waste to numerous lives in his relentless hounding of an innocent man. So the first shitty thing about this investigation is that by mid morning the news of the murders had spread and the scene was soon overrun by people. There were people who were stationed standing guard and weren't supposed to let anyone in the house, but they did anyway. It wasn't until noon that they actually roped off the house and the outbuildings and nobody knew how many people had gone through the house did they forget to put the police tape up?

Jess: 33:02

yeah, not until noon. So this was like lizzie with lizzie borden's just gonna say same thing happened with lizzie borden people love a crime and they, yeah, literally would walk through the house to gawk at these bodies.

Rob: 33:15

How horrific is that, and this is what 1910 you said, 1912. 1912. Just to think, I mean 110 years ago roughly 112. 112. It's just unbelievable. It is.

Jess: 33:30

Some people even took souvenirs and touched things they shouldn't have. Virtually everything had been touched and if the killer left prints, they had been smudged and covered by the others you know what this reminds me of?

Rob: 33:44

I I think this was one of your cases. It might have been hannah's, or could even been another podcast I listened to, but there was it. Do you know which one I'm talking about?

Hannah: 33:54

no, just you're very vocal during this episode.

Rob: 33:58

I'm sorry, but there was a murder inside the house and the police the invest I I think it was a different podcast. Basically people were not modeling with the dead bodies, but posing with the dead body.

Jonathan: 34:11

Was that yours? Was that yours?

Rob: 34:12

no, it must have been another podcast, but the like the police were coming in and they were posing with the dead bodies and taking pictures, it had to have been a different podcast yeah, but this was this was during the 70s or the 60s wow I think it was mortal musings. It could be, yeah I don't know.

Jess: 34:33

I haven't listened to all of theirs, but I love them sorry, that's. That's fine. As early as Tuesday, authorities were giving serious consideration to the possibility of a serial killer, or the term used back in 1912 as transient butcher.

Hannah: 34:49

Oh yeah, interesting huh, I kind of like that Transient butcher.

Jess: 34:54

It's like saying flesh pedestrians instead of the other word Hookers. What Skinwalkers? You're not supposed to say that word.

Rob: 35:02

Skinwalkers.

Jess: 35:03

Why Skinwalker?

Rob: 35:05

What's a skinwalker?

Jonathan: 35:06

Oh, definitely not hookers.

Jess: 35:08

No Sorry.

Jonathan: 35:09

Why can't you say that word?

Jess: 35:11

The Native Americans, specifically the Navajo, have very big. Oh yeah, gotcha Understood, they have big. What like things about those? They're like. Have you never heard of flesh pedestrians?

Jonathan: 35:25

no you need to google there's a lot on tiktok yeah but they don't call them that they call them like, uh, like the real word, the other real word. There's not a reason skinwalkers skin walker, which is a flesh pedestrian that was like a hooker.

Rob: 35:39

I've never heard of Skinwalker before. Oh my gosh.

Jess: 35:43

Anyway, okay.

Rob: 35:44

Bye John.

Jess: 35:45

Bye John.

Jonathan: 35:46

Thanks for coming. My mommy's picking me up, tell mommy hello.

Jess: 35:52

There had been other axe murders that had been happening around the country, which we will talk about later, but let's explore the suspects that were identified. One suspect was Andy Sawyer, who had worked on the railroad and was known for the way he could quickly handle an axe. In the wake of the murders, suspicion was cast upon transients and strangers who might have been passing through the town at the time, which is understandable, as Villisca was a railroad town. Andy Sawyer was one of the said transients and he was reported to the sheriff by his employer as a result of his odd behavior. He was apparently interested in the murders. I mean, if that's one of the reasons, I would be accused of all the murders that we've talked about.

Jess: 36:40

But Sawyer was also known to sleep fully dressed while gripping his axe that he used to work. I mean, this could be due to some kind of trauma he experienced and he was just hypervigilant. But he had been hired to work on the railroad the day after the murders in a town that was 60 miles away. By the afternoon, sawyer had been talking about him and seemed to want to talk about nothing else Again. If that means he's guilty, so am I. He told Dwyer, his boss, that he had been in Villisca that Sunday night and was worried that he might be a suspect. And a few days later Sawyer had been with the crew and Dwyer saw him bent over. And a few days later, sawyer had been with the crew and Dwyer saw him bent over, rubbing his head with his hands. Dwyer approached him from behind and was startled when Sawyer suddenly jumped up and yelled I'll cut your goddamn heads off and began doing striking motions with his axe. Oh boy.

Jess: 37:33

Wow, okay, a little violent A little bit, so a little suspicious, but I can still argue trauma for this one.

Hannah: 37:41

Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious.

Jess: 37:45

Don't be suspicious. So I can still argue trauma, especially if someone was coming up from behind him. But it was then that Dwyer went to talk to Sheriff Jackson, who paid Sawyer a visit and asked him a few questions. Sawyer denied any involvement in the crime and he said he didn't know anything about the crime until the afternoon papers. Sheriff Jackson heard him out and decided that there was not enough to pursue anything and sent him on his way. Jackson didn't know where Sawyer had gone, hadn't checked out his story and he took some heat over it. But sawyer was eventually tracked down in north dakota and that sawyer said, according to the author of the book, was so seedy that it was believable. He left his wife that spring, went through minneapolis to des moines, got drunk, arrested, thrown in the pest house, released, spent a few nights with a woman of ill repute, rode the rails, was ran.

Rob: 38:43

Is that a skinwalker again?

Hannah: 38:44

No, Come on, you're a woman of the times. Ill repute. Ill repute. This was a quote. The woman knew how to use her pussy. That is fine.

Rob: 38:55

She was a hooker.

Jess: 38:56

She was a lady of the night.

Rob: 38:59

Prostitute.

Hannah: 39:00

Prostitute, prostitute. Well, stay out of this.

Jess: 39:06

He was ran out of Osceola by a man with a badge and eventually arrived in Creston, which was where he was working on the railroad.

Jess: 39:15

On the night of Sunday June 9th the investigator set out verifying the story and, although some of the details couldn't be confirmed, he was able to place Sawyer in some other place at the time of the murder and was convinced that he was not in Villisca. The next two suspects I'm going to talk about together because Wilkerson accused both of them at the same time in a murder for hire type scenario, which I think kind of matches with what you were saying, like this person had to do it and was kind of remorseful. But William Blackie Mansfield doesn't really strike me as the remorseful type and he is the one that Wilkerson believed actually murdered the family and he was suspected for the murder of his wife, infant child and in-laws, as well as similar axe murders committed in Kansas. According to Wilkerson, mansfield was hired by Jones to execute the family. Wilkerson had a witness that could place Mansfield meeting with Frank Jones and his son Albert discussing the plan for the murders.

Rob: 40:28

Do we know why this guy's name was Blackie?

Jess: 40:31

No, I didn't read that Wilkerson had a witness that could place Mansfield meeting with Frank Jones and his son Albert discussing the plan for the murders Mike.

Rob: 40:40

Jones, no, frank Jones.

Jess: 40:42

Frank Jones. Mike Jones, the detective, convinced a grand jury to open an investigation on Mansfield in 1916, so four years after the murders. But an alibi eventually led to his release and later Mansfield successfully sued Wilkerson and was awarded $2,225. Frank Jones was the most surprising name that had been connected with the murders. Jones was a well-known and well-respected member of the community and even served as the Iowa State Senator.

Jess: 41:15

Josiah Moore had worked for Jones for several years before leaving to start his own business selling farm implements, like we mentioned before, and he had taken a lucrative John Deere contract with him, which may have not sat well with Jones. After the murders, rumors began that Moore was having an affair with Jones' daughter-in-law, which was never substantiated, and Wilkerson accused Jones of the crime, but formal charges were never brought against the senator. But I'm starting to think that maybe there just weren't very many answers in the beginning, and so, you know, in a small town people talk and they were trying to come up with a reason why Frank could have murdered or ordered the murder of the family. You look like you're going to say something.

Hannah: 42:02

Yes, I'm sorry. What's with the band around your leg?

Rob: 42:06

What band? I don't have a band around my leg.

Hannah: 42:08

It's a shadow. I'm sorry, it looks like you literally have this like black band around your calf. I am so sorry, Jess. I was concerned because I was like what's wrong with your leg?

Rob: 42:22

so the face was for my thigh or my calf, and not the case I've made plenty of faces for this case.

Hannah: 42:28

This case is fucked up. This case is wicked fucked up it is, and then I was concerned about the circulation, your leg thank you, you're welcome I'm Jess.

Rob: 42:37

You want to rub it later?

Hannah: 42:39

Continue.

Jess: 42:41

Denied. I saved the most likely suspect for last. Well kind of. He is Reverend George Kelly. He was a traveling Presbyterian minister who was in Villisca the night of the murders and he was even at the Children's Day program that was attended by the Moore family and the girls. Reverend Kelly's name was mentioned as early as two days after the murders and, according to the author, reverend Kelly was amongst the strangest characters. People who met with him rarely forgot him. Some would say he was eccentric or peculiar, somewhat insane or quite odd. Others said he was perverted and unquestionably out of his mind.

Jess: 43:25

Kelly had been born in England in 1878 and at the age of 26 came to this country with his wife Laura. He was a religious zealot and was determined to become a minister, which took him a long time, and a couple of his instructors would eventually give statements about their concerns. The Presbyterian church needed ministers and Kelly wanted to be one. If he stuck with it, they wouldn't deny him. People remember his dark, deep-set, chilling eyes, but it was his mannerisms that kind of concerned them. Filling eyes, but it was his mannerisms that kind of concerned them when he was excited. He ranted and spoke so fast he was often impossible to understand he drooled excessively and, while in one of his frequent tirades was apt to spray, spittle on those nearby.

Hannah: 44:12

Ew.

Jess: 44:13

Gross. It was said that he could preach a powerful sermon, but his erratic personal behavior and propensity to borrow money with no intention to pay it back was not what congregations expected of a minister, saying that he had been trained on crime and criminals while living in London. His theory, according to the multiple letters that he wrote to the attorney general, varied from time to time, but essentially seems to have thought the killer was a relative of the Moore family. Kelly was in the house at least once after the murders and claims to have seen a vial under one of the beds, claiming that the victims were drugged before they were murdered.

Rob: 45:02

Isn't that what you were saying, Hannah?

Hannah: 45:04

No, Jessica brought that up.

Rob: 45:05

Yeah, I brought that up, jess, isn't that what you were saying?

Jess: 45:09

Yes, in 1914, kelly attracted more attention. By this time he was living in South Dakota and had been arrested and charged with using the US mail in an attempt to entice a teenage girl to pose nude for him, while he sought inspiration needed to write a religious book. Oh my word Huge eye roll. Like what is it, with church leaders going after younger boys and girls for religious inspiration?

Hannah: 45:40

Don't even get me started anywho.

Jess: 45:44

So he ended up in a government institution in washington dc for evaluation and eventually was transferred back to south dakota to serve a sentence. While in jail, I mean I guess he was the OG dick pic kind of guy sending messages and something.

Hannah: 46:03

Jessica.

Jess: 46:05

Unsolicited dick pics. While in jail he implied to the jailer and other prisoners that he was responsible for the murders. Kelly also groped and made attempts to perform oral sex on other inmates.

Hannah: 46:21

So this guy was obviously messed up in the head, and investigators interviewed him in 1914 and determined that kelly wasn't their man I mean it would have made sense if it was him, because the window was being covered or the mirrors being covered and the children's faces and all them being covered. It wouldn't make sense if it was a priest but yeah, and kind of a crazy man.

Jess: 46:47

leave it to wilkerson to cause some waves again, as he created another theory that involved reverend kelly. As kelly was in velisca that night and was staying with the local minister and his wife, which this part I found kind of odd Kelly had full reign of their house, while the minister and his wife slept out in a tent due to her allergies.

Hannah: 47:12

I thought your allergies would be worse.

Jess: 47:13

Yeah, you would think, and Kelly could sleep in the tent. They hadn't even known when he left that morning, but he supposedly made the 5 am train. He was remembered by a couple on the train talking about their murders, which would have been before the bodies were discovered. He had also taken a shirt covered in blood to the cleaners. A few days after the murders, reverend Kelly was indicted by a grand jury in 1917, so five years after the murders. His first trial ended in a hung jury and was acquitted in his second trial. So who do you think was the murderer?

Hannah: 47:52

I mean it would make sense to be the priest.

Rob: 47:55

Kelly.

Jess: 47:56

You think so it's gotta be, so I do have another possibility, possibility did you get this one from reddit?

Jess: 48:02

no, this other possibility no and um, like I said earlier, this case is unsolved and I feel like this is gonna be one of those questions that I ask god when I die. I think one of them will be who killed JonBenet Ramsey, what happened to the Dyatlov hiking team and who committed the Villisca axe murders? But my other possibility remember how I mentioned the possible serial killer that terrorized the country, or transient butcher. Rather Well, my next episode, which isn't technically a part two as it's its own episode, but I'm going to do it about this serial killer, or Transient Butcher, and we will see that if you think it's a better explanation to what happened to the Moors, because it could be connected.

Rob: 48:55

Rob, what's your theory? So I was just thinking you had said that there was a barn right.

Jess: 49:02

Yes.

Rob: 49:02

And so it got me thinking about Back to the Future, the third one, when it goes back to the 1800s.

Jess: 49:10

Are you thinking it was Michael J Fox?

Rob: 49:12

So Marty McFly, who was played by Michael J Fox, ends up in this barn and they come out and they think it's a spaceship. So my theory is it's a time traveler that came back, stayed in the barn because they let him, and then he secretly came into the house and killed everyone. But why?

Jonathan: 49:34

would he do that?

Rob: 49:35

And then mysteriously went away.

Jess: 49:37

Just because he could.

Rob: 49:38

Or the past, or wherever he was going.

Jess: 49:41

Maybe it was aliens.

Rob: 49:42

Yeah, so it's a time traveler that just goes back in time to kill people.

Jess: 49:48

Was it you?

Rob: 49:49

It was not me.

Jess: 49:50

With that. Look, I think it was Hannah. What?

Rob: 49:54

So that's my theory, good Lord.

Hannah: 49:56

So remember when we were talking about the Lizzie Borden case and that we were thinking it was the uncle.

Jonathan: 50:02

Mm-hmm.

Hannah: 50:03

And there was also a axe murder that happened during that time as well. Mm-hmm, could this all be connected?

Jess: 50:11

Well, when did Lizzie happen, this was in 1912. Hers was 1800s right 1892., that's not. I mean, that's not far off, that's not too far but the case that I'm going to talk about. I'm reading a book called man from the Train. So they think all these murders happened around the railroad. They were all railroad towns, From Washington State down to Florida.

Rob: 50:39

Weren't most towns railroad towns? I mean, weren't most towns railroad towns? I mean springfield's a railroad town, east long meadows a railroad town. You know, what rob?

Jess: 50:48

I'm just saying most I'll tell you next week so till next time, wanders, good night, good night, bye, wanders, bye, good night.

Rob: 50:58

Good night, bye, wanderers, bye.

Jess: 50:58

Nighty night or thanks for listening.

Hannah: 51:01

Thanks for listening today, wicked Wanderings is hosted by Hannah Fitzpatrick and me, jess.

Jess: 51:07

Gunan.

Rob: 51:07

And it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick.

Jess: 51:10

Music by Sasha End.

Hannah: 51:12

If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave us a rating and review.

Jess: 51:16

And be sure to follow us on all our socials. You can find the links down in the show notes and, if you're looking, for some Wicked Cozy t-shirts or hoodies, head over to our merch store. Thank you for being a part of the Wicked Wanderings community. We appreciate each and every one of you.

Hannah: 51:32

Stay curious, keep exploring and always remember to keep on wandering.