Wicked Wanderings
Delve into the enigmatic realms of the mysterious, unearth tales of haunting encounters, explore the chilling depths of true crime, and unravel the threads of the unexplained. Join us on the Wicked Wanderings Podcast for a riveting journey through the realms of the unknown and the haunting mysteries that linger in the shadows.
Wicked Wanderings
Ep. 14: Larry Hall
Join Jess in this compelling episode of Wicked Wanderings as she delves into the chilling tale of Larry Dewayne Hall, an American murderer and suspected serial killer whose sinister activities spanned the Midwest.
A self-professed aficionado of the American Revolution and Civil War, Hall used his historical reenactments as a cover for a dark and horrifying secret. Abductions, rape, torture, and murder are just a few elements of the gruesome crimes attributed to him.
The episode explores how Hall first came to the attention of law enforcement after the discovery of a 15-year-old victim's remains in November 1993, leading to his conviction for kidnapping. Despite later confessing to additional murders, Hall recanted his admissions, leaving authorities grappling with the true extent of his heinous acts.
With more than thirty-five confessions, subsequent retractions, and an estimated body count ranging between forty and fifty young women, Larry Hall's case places him among the most prolific serial killers in American history.
Jess, joined by co-host Hannah, along with Jonathan and our esteemed producer Rob, navigates the intricate web of this disturbing case. Subscribe now to uncover the harrowing details and explore the sinister mind of Larry Dewayne Hall on Wicked Wanderings.
Very Scary People with Donnie Wahlberg
In with the Devil: A Fallen Hero, a Serial Killer, and a Dangerous Bargain for Redemption by James Keene & Hillel Levin
Black Bird on AppleTV+
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Wicked Wanderings is hosted by Hannah & Courtney and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick. Music by Sascha Ende.
Wicked Wanderings is a Production of Studio 113
Where did you think this was gonna go?
Speaker 2:Seriously, she got back home safe. We just want to mention.
Speaker 3:JK. I just wanted to have her better.
Speaker 1:Oh, we are.
Speaker 4:Hello wanderers. I'm Jess and I'm Hannah, and welcome to wicked wanderings. Hello Hannah, Hello Jess and hello Jonathan. Hello and hello Rob. Hello, Rob is going to be part of our episode today, Because this episode was requested by Rob.
Speaker 2:Yes indeed.
Speaker 4:Yes, and this is a case that I have never in all of my 41 years, heard of, and I feel old being 41, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I never heard of it before.
Speaker 4:I Saw it on Apple TV right In which I watched after your recommendation. Excellent. Yes, I know nothing about this. Good, I'm going in blind, legit. Oh my gosh. So this episode is about potential serial killer, larry Hall. What?
Speaker 1:do you mean potential?
Speaker 4:So that's the iffy thing. Larry Hall has not been Confirmed as killing as many people as they think he did but he definitely did it. But I'm pretty sure he did, because what you will find out, what Larry Hall did and then took back, and so I can't figure out if he is one of the smartest men in the country or one of the complete dumbest.
Speaker 4:Hmm and we will get into why there might be some cognitive Delays there. If you guys are interested in this case, watch Blackbird on Apple TV. So on March 29th 1993, 19 year old Trisha Reitler was walking from her dorm at Indiana Wesleyan University to a local Marsh supermarket. The Marion Indiana supermarket was about a half a mile from the university and she had been working on a term paper and needed a break. So she walked down to the grocery store, bought her a soda and a magazine and headed back to her dorm. However, trisha never made it back. Oh, her bloods, I love it.
Speaker 1:Where did you think this was gonna go? Seriously she got back home safe we just want to mention.
Speaker 3:JK. I just wanted to have her better.
Speaker 4:Trisha's bloodstained jeans, shirt and shoes, along with one of her earrings, were discovered folded under a tree in a field near the center elementary school. Both it.
Speaker 5:Yes, they were folded.
Speaker 1:Psycho, but they were bloody, bloodied, but they were.
Speaker 5:Psychotic behavior.
Speaker 1:Do they know? If they were bloody, then folded or folded them bloody?
Speaker 4:bloodied, then folded.
Speaker 4:So she had blood on her jeans and this is walking distance, right walking distance, whoa, yes, so this elementary school was in between the supermarket and the campus and, like I said, it was a half a mile from the university, so no four distance at all. So Trisha came from a religious family and was close with both of her parents. She was a daddy's girl and was said to always be smiling, and she was a freshman at the university and was a psychology major and don't mind that and was considering a career as a family counselor. Girl after my own heart, just saying Good luck.
Speaker 1:Maybe she was a saint. Yeah, maybe she was rough.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she was a homebody and had difficulty adjusting to being away from her family. She was said to have stood out on the conservative Christian campus with her cutoff denim and colorful leggings. She was a bubbly free spirit and would often go running at night and maybe a little naive.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, you don't go running at night. No, well, number one. Yeah, and it was sad. On the case with Palazan Episode, they interviewed her father and he had a really close relationship with her and he took her to college and as he was leaving, she was saying please just stay with me. And he obviously left because he can't stay with her, and it was a couple days after that where they Doesn't that break your heart?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a guilt, that's so sad.
Speaker 4:Trisha was reported missing by her roommate the following day, when she had not shown up for 24 hours. Her parents received a call from Marion police to see if she had gone home to Ohio. Obviously she hadn't, and by the time Trisha's parents were able to make it to the campus, the college was locked down. Police were posted around the campus and some officers with dogs combed the grounds and the Marion community Surrounded and supported the family. More than 150 people, including residents, spent the weekend searching the area. After a week, the Rytlers had to go back to Ohio for their other three children. They would go back and forth between Ohio and Indiana, but there were no leads. After more massive searches and after two weeks, trisha's mom spoke to reporters, stating that they knew she wouldn't be coming home. Trisha's body would never be found.
Speaker 5:Oh, that's the shittiest thing. Yeah, no, closure, no.
Speaker 4:Six months later in Georgetown, illinois, 15 year old Jessica Roach was riding her new mountain bike around the small town. Jessica's older sister passed her riding as she was driving to the grocery store and the sisters waved at each other. 30 minutes later, when her sister was on her way back home, she saw Jessica's bike lying by the side of the road and Jessica was nowhere to be found. She was reported missing and, unlike Trisha, jessica's body was eventually found in early November, just weeks after she disappeared. A farmer across the state line in Perryville, indiana, was working in his cornfield and saw a dark mass. He stopped his tractor and went to investigate and found the badly decomposed body of a young woman. The woman had a broken jaw and had died of Stringulation and because of the decomposition. The medical examiner was not able to identify her and he even concluded that it wasn't her wasn't the first woman wasn't Jessica but it was another woman who had been murdered.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so Jess. There's Trisha, who went missing, never found, and then Jessica, the 15 year old can ask a quick question. Yes.
Speaker 1:So we know that Trisha was murdered at night, mm-hmm, and she had a pattern of exercising at night. Well, supposedly murdered, because the body was supposedly murdered, but I mean, the blood gives me an assumption. But anyway, jessica, what time of day did her sister see her?
Speaker 4:It was mid afternoon.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it was like a bright, bright day. Okay, interesting.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah. So in the beginning of the show that's what they show is the young girl, the 15 year old, riding her bicycle down a dirt road in the farmlands.
Speaker 5:Mm-hmm. So, but what time of year was this?
Speaker 4:and where in the States was this September and then her body wasn't found until November. Interesting, okay.
Speaker 1:Cause I'm trying to think about, like Kana said, potential serial killer. I'm trying to think of all those things like what is MO like what is? Regular practice.
Speaker 5:Right cause like.
Speaker 1:BUDDY, young woman alone at night, or totally different things.
Speaker 5:Right, like BUDDY had an MO. Like most of these guys, have some type of pattern, yeah type of person type of pattern.
Speaker 4:And we will get into that.
Speaker 5:Which, if he has mommy issues, sometimes they look like their mother, which is always interesting.
Speaker 3:There is a theory about who the victims look like, oh, all right.
Speaker 4:The body wasn't even identified. At first, the medical examiner concluded that it wasn't even her and Jessica wouldn't have ever been identified if it hadn't been for Detective Miller. He was insistent that this was Jessica, but because of her body being so decomposed, it was difficult, obviously, for the medical examiner to identify. Jessica had never been to the dentist, so they didn't have dental records.
Speaker 1:What Never been to the dentist.
Speaker 4:Never been to the dentist.
Speaker 2:Well, you gotta think this is 1993. This is out West.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, we've had dental care nation to nation, even in farming communities.
Speaker 2:Right, but this is not in the city, this is rural America.
Speaker 4:To be honest, I didn't go to the dentist consistently until I was an adult and over my dental care.
Speaker 5:I guess we had a good mom, johnny, because, shout out, my mom loved me.
Speaker 1:You have no doubt.
Speaker 2:I don't have any of my original teeth, but the love was there, yes. So the teeth are not.
Speaker 4:Detective Miller had gone to Jessica's mom, terry, and asked her if she had anything at all that they could use to identify her. Terry said that when Jessica was in elementary school, a detective came and talked to the class and had all the kids fingerprinted, and Terry still had the paper with her fingerprints on them. The cool thing about this story is that it was actually Detective Miller who had gone to the class and talked to the kids about safety and had the kids fingerprinted.
Speaker 5:You never know right when your influence is coming in right.
Speaker 4:So they were able to lift one fingerprint from the body and it was a match to the paper that Terry had provided. It wasn't until almost a year later that Detective Miller got his first break. Periodically he would check the reports of license plates that had been run. What do you guys laugh smirking about over there?
Speaker 5:Oh, I'm sorry. I was just smiling at my brother. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:Oh, tender Smiling at your brother foots you with your husband.
Speaker 5:This said, I love the people of my life. I'll smile at you more. Okay, thank you. I love that. Since we're sisters, now apparently Pretty much Sister wise.
Speaker 1:No, no, that's not what we meant Well with Rob.
Speaker 3:No with Rob Rob brings chaos to these.
Speaker 2:The sister wise thing is an inside joke from before and Courtney is included in that.
Speaker 4:Yes, it wasn't until almost a year later that Detective Miller got his first break. Periodically he would check the reports of license plates that had been run, and he happened to come across a report of a man who was driving a van following two girls who were riding their bikes.
Speaker 1:It's always a man and a fan, right.
Speaker 4:They never like come up on a moped. No, right, seriously I mean, I don't really see that conducive to being a serial killer Like where are they gonna hide the bodies?
Speaker 5:They got some saddle bags on their moped.
Speaker 4:These two girls noticed that they were being followed and tried to get away from him. They found an alley that was partially blocked off by another car, so he wouldn't be able to follow them, and so they made it their way through the alley and back to their home and hid their bikes in the garage because they were afraid he was gonna find them. Oh, my goodness, wouldn't that be creepy.
Speaker 2:So creepy.
Speaker 4:Crying and upset. The girls went and told their father what had happened and they went with their dad to look for the van.
Speaker 5:Wait, what, what, what, just know it Dad call the police Right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Scatter hunt like what. Let's go see if we can find them. Get in the back. Let's hunt this fucker down.
Speaker 2:Well, the police are probably like two hours away, you know. Again, it's rural America.
Speaker 5:Where in the world are they? We'll get there.
Speaker 1:Okay because Indiana right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh, indiana, is that what you meant? Oh, yes, yeah.
Speaker 5:But okay, so they have police there. So I understand rather you're saying rural America, but they have police departments.
Speaker 4:I think it's just like a dad trying to take shit on his own and be like I'm going to protect my daughters. Maybe you don't take them with you. Well, they needed. He needed them to help spot the van because he didn't know what he looked like he didn't traumatize. All right, anyways, keep going.
Speaker 1:He doesn't just shoot up the Orkan van.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:The Orkan van? You never know. They spotted the van and their dad wrote down the license plate number and then went to police.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay, there you go, cool cool.
Speaker 4:So this report stuck out to Detective Miller as the two girls were similar in appearance to Jessica Roach, they had brown hair and they were both riding their bikes. Miller ran the license plate and found out that it belonged to Larry Hall of Wabash, indiana. Larry was born on December 11, 1962, along with his twin brother, gary. So we have Larry and Gary Larry. Oh my God, why would they do that? That's not Two parents, robert and Bernice Hall? Larry spent his first few days in the NICU due to lack of oxygen because of the monochronic pregnancy. I think that's not what.
Speaker 4:I said this means that both boys shared and were dependent on a single placenta while in the womb. As a result, gary received more nutrients and had better growth. This part is also called Twin-to-Twin Transfusion Syndrome, or TTTS. This occurs when abnormal blood vessel connections in the placenta cause an imbalance of blood flow between the twins. One twin called the donor, and in this case Larry, gives too much blood to the other twin called the recipient, and in our case, gary. This results in dehydration and growth problems in the donor and an overload and complications for the recipient. Some fetuses show structural brain damage and one-third of the survivors have cerebral palsy. According to Cambridgeorg, the survivors can experience long-term neurodevelopmental impairment, severe motor and or cognitive impairment and developmental delay, bilateral blindness and deafness requiring a hearing aid. I tell you this as a possible contributor to what Hall became as he got older, and it's possible that there was some cognitive impairment with Hall. Hall did demonstrate some concerning behavior early on At age six, and this comes from very scary people with Donnie Wahlberg on ID. So you said Hall.
Speaker 2:You mean Larry Hall, right Cause we were just talking about Gary too. Yeah, sorry, larry, just want to make sure. So when I talk about Hall.
Speaker 4:It's mostly Larry, okay, and if Gary comes up. I'll say Gary.
Speaker 1:If this isn't appropriate, you can cut it. But his last name is Wahlberg. Is he related to the Wahlbergs? Yeah, Donnie.
Speaker 4:Wahlberg new kids on the block and he's related to Mark Wahlberg.
Speaker 1:Oh, the only reason I know that name is because I work in advertising and we used to average like one of my clients was Wahlbergers. Yeah, I went to their corporate offices and met the one that's not famous, the one who mostly owns Wahlbergers.
Speaker 5:You need to tell them that they need to up their game.
Speaker 1:Oh, this was years ago they got rid of us. I never have had a Wahlberger, even though I worked for them.
Speaker 5:Me neither it's really sad. It's really disappointing. We have one here in Springfield, it's the name. Oh, they're not good. I like Plan B Burger, but there's not one nearby.
Speaker 2:There is a Plan B right here right in the basketball hall thing they used to have gluten-free onion rings.
Speaker 1:They still do. I'm so sorry, I don't have any memories, never mind.
Speaker 5:John wants to stay for dinner and have gluten-free onions.
Speaker 1:I mean, if there's gluten-free onion rings, I'm in, I'm in.
Speaker 4:So Hall. Larry Hall did demonstrate some concerning behavior early on. At age six he tried to hit Gary in the head with a cement block. At age 10, he pulled a butcher knife on Gary and this information is from the very scary people. I didn't get it on the multiple sources. They didn't mention this. However, it says that he killed some 380 rabbits at their home.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's definitely like one of the telltale signs of a well, a psychotic person.
Speaker 2:I think I remember the series on Apple TV Plus that he did kill some animals.
Speaker 4:Yeah, some animals, so regardless of how many like 380, the fact that he did kill some rabbits is concerning yeah. Hall was described as a loner and stayed mostly to himself. He grew up in a cemetery, as his father was a grave digger and they lived at the home that was next to the cemetery there's a word for it, but I don't know who it is.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's cool Like a caretakers cottage.
Speaker 5:But that's cool, just nice.
Speaker 1:It used to be pretty normal. It's not anymore.
Speaker 4:Yeah, gary was taller and slimmer and he was more outgoing. Larry was pudgier, shorter and painfully shy. This part kind of cracked me up. They would also play jokes on the cops. They would dress up a dummy and throw it in the ditch and then they would wait for the police to be called. Then go get the mummy and hide it and watch for the police to find it. It's messed up. I'm not laughing, but kind of comical.
Speaker 1:So, rob, they did have police out there. Yeah, they were busy.
Speaker 4:They were a little exhausted yeah looking for dummies and ditches, so let's be honest.
Speaker 5:If you're looking at his childhood, I mean, death was a very relevant part of his life.
Speaker 4:It was a common thing.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 4:He was involved in the whole aspect with his father.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And we'll get to that a little later, but in the show and I don't know if this is one of the accurate pieces I didn't hear about it in the book that I read. But his dad made him dig up the graves and steal the jewelry from the dead. However, I don't know if that is true or it could be just Hollywood.
Speaker 2:So you didn't read about that anywhere else.
Speaker 4:No, However, but he was involved with his dad.
Speaker 5:I think there's something to be said about not being afraid of death and us as a society being so scared of talking about it that it's a fact of life, Like we talk about life coming into the world but not about leaving. But it sounds like maybe he had a little too much, yeah.
Speaker 4:I think he was desensitized to a tour star next time?
Speaker 5:Yeah, okay, interesting.
Speaker 4:Another thing that the twins enjoyed, which I found intriguing because I'm a history buff they loved participating in civil war reenactments in the area.
Speaker 5:Oh sorry.
Speaker 4:Just imagining that yeah. And Hall would take part in these reenactments all over the country, and these will come up later, so put this information in your back pocket for now. In 1984, robert Hall so their father was eventually fired from his job at the cemetery due to his heavy drinking on the job, which resulted him putting bodies in the wrong graves.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that's like foundational yeah, you just need to put people underground. Right you have one job.
Speaker 4:But like how would they know, really, unless like record keeping or whatever? But would they dig up the people and be like this isn't Mr Jones, this isn't Nana? Yeah, curious question. The family had to move into a one bedroom shack Instead of moving into the small house. Gary moved out with his girlfriend instead and Larry struggled big time with this, as his life wasn't a life unless his twin was in it and it was brought up that the girls that Larry would end up stocking closely resembled his brother's girlfriend. Oh, yes.
Speaker 4:So, detective Miller, once they identified Jessica Roach, reached out to the Wabash Police Department and after he found the license plate to see if they knew anything about Larry, sergeant Jeff Whitmer grew up with Larry and mentioned that he used to participate in the Civil War reenactments. Whitmer also thought that Hall was harmless, even though his name had come up before the detectives working. So keep in mind Trisha went missing in Indiana and Jessica went missing in Georgetown, illinois. So two different jurisdictions, and so the detectives working on the Trisha rightler case had previously reached out to the Wabash Police Department as well for information. They had been told that he was harmless as well, and even though Larry had been caught, arrested and released twice for stocking women in the past five months. Wow.
Speaker 2:So he has a history of stocking In five months.
Speaker 1:In five months, so this would be his third stocking.
Speaker 4:Fourth, technically Twice in the five months, and then Trisha and then Jessica.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, if Trisha was proven, yep.
Speaker 4:Gotcha. These detectives were also present when Detective Miller went in to interview Larry for the murder of Jessica Roach. Miller showed Hall a picture of Jessica and Hall had a physical reaction to it. He put up his hands and then looked to the side so he wouldn't have to look at her picture. Hall began crying at some point, then told Miller that he had bad dreams, and this is something that he had mentioned to the previous detectives as well. He had told them that he had a bad dream about killing Trisha Reitler and was now telling Detective Miller that he had bad dreams about killing Jessica Roach.
Speaker 4:Miller stated on the show on the case with Paul Azan that he knew this wasn't a dream and that it was actually a confession. Hall had mentioned that in his dream he had picked Jessica up and strangled her with a belt around the tree that he directed her to sit next to until she stopped breathing. Also, during this interview, miller had gotten Hall to admit that he had been to Georgetown, illinois, the weekend that Jessica Roach had disappeared. Hall had described the town without naming it and had admitted he had taken part in a Civil War reenactment from there.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 4:Yes, miller had already obviously known about the reenactment but wanted to place Hall in Georgetown. At the end of the interview, hall agreed to a signed confession and was going to be taken back to Illinois. The following day, when Miller showed up to take him, hall rescinded his confession and told Miller that he didn't confess. He was just talking about dreams. Hall did a similar thing with the previous detectives and will do it again when he is asked about other victims. However, because Jessica was abducted and taken over state lines, her abduction was considered a federal case and the FBI actually got involved. Once they were involved there was a search of Hall's van and the Hall home. He was still living with his parents in the one bedroom shack and had a little part of the house of the living room to his own.
Speaker 4:Evidence was found in his van that was related to both Jessica and Trisha. There was a picture of a girl with handwritten like wrote Jessica's name on it. He wrote Jessica's name on it. There was also a notebook in the van with logs of his stalking women in Mary in Indiana with mention of the intersection by the Marshes grocery store where Trisha was last seen. So he would write in comments seen some pretty girls around here a lot of pretty women exercising or girls really. They're not really women. They found articles of Trisha's disappearance papers where he wrote her name over and over, and an abduction kit involving knives, rope tape and a tarp. There was also a to-do list that included items like removed bloody carpet, buy a new hack saw blade, etc.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness Right. But I think it's so funny that, like he made himself a to-do list. Yeah like he was that organized. He was like, oh, get milk. Oh, by the way, remove buddy carpet. Yeah pick up dry cleaning.
Speaker 4:Exactly, and bless you, hannah. Sorry, it's okay. This, however, was not enough evidence to take it to trial, and so no charges were ever brought for Trisha's disappearance. There was, however, enough evidence to charge Hall for Jessica Roach's abduction, and he was arrested on December 21st 1994. He was charged in a one-count indictment with the offense of kidnapping Jessica Roach for purposes of sexual gratification.
Speaker 4:The district court denied Hall's motion to suppress his confession and after an eight-day trial Hall was convicted. The court denied his motion for a new trial, which alleged 77 errors by the court, and sentenced him to life in prison. Hall appealed his conviction with three arguments First, the trial court should have suppressed his confession because it was a dream, apparently. Second, the court erroneously admitted evidence of other crimes, particularly the rightler case. And third, the court aired in refusing to permit Hall's experts to testify about false Confessions and his susceptibility to coercion, and he was granted an appeal.
Speaker 4:Hall was then tried again and was found guilty, but he would appeal this a second time, and this made the prosecutor, prosecutor Beaumont, nervous, and he did not want Hall to win the second appeal or to get out of jail and kill again. So prosecutor Beaumont was very creative with the idea that he came up with. Enter Jimmy Keen, my favorite. I don't want to go into Jimmy Keen too much. After watching some of the Interviews with him and listening to his book, I think he's just a cocky bastard and it started driving me nuts. If you want to know more about him, check out blackbird on Apple TV or listen, read his book in the devil, a fallen hero.
Speaker 4:What I mean that's got to tell you right so is the book worth it? I Mean it was very informative but, like the audiobook is, goes back and forth between Jimmy's accounts what happened and then the author are a book lover to book lover is it worth? No, I need to read okay. You know?
Speaker 2:was the show accurate to what they put in the book?
Speaker 4:There were definitely some differences, but a lot of the big points were similar like he was a big old gunslinger selling guns and drugs and anything. Yeah, okay, mm-hmm, jimmy Keen not yeah, not hall yeah well hall didn't have time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was not his to-do list.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was not on his to-do list, so in blackbird, jimmy Keen is played by Teran Egerton Eagerton. Pretty dreamy who, I must say, is quite easy on the eyes, as Rob just said what is? The Teran Eagerton yes, someone look them up. Plus he's like in shape. I mean, I like a man in shape.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Is that kind of square face with the jawline?
Speaker 4:and the abs and the muscles.
Speaker 5:Right, absolutely Hello.
Speaker 4:So if you watch it just for him, I mean you know it's a bonus. Keen grew up poor and when he was in high school he started selling marijuana, which he was actually really good at and over the years his weed business grew and and eventually became somewhat involved in selling cocaine. He also got involved with many legal businesses as well a real estate firm, high-end car dealerships, yada, yada, yada. Keen is so amazing, but he was eventually caught and he was arrested and was sentenced to 10 years in prison by none other than prosecutor Beaumont. Oh, oh yes. Beaumont wanted to make an example of the cop son and show everyone that he was serious about being tough on drug dealers. However, beaumont respected Keen for his charismatic ways and offered Keen a chance to get out of jail and have his record cleared. All he had to do was be transferred to a maximum security prison and befriend Larry Hall and become an informant. No biggie, right.
Speaker 1:That's like an enormous request. Right like what if you don't find any dirt? You're stuck in a maximalist. Not maximalist, but the maximum security. Sorry, I am a maximalist, the security is maximal.
Speaker 4:That's like a lot to ask. Yeah, and Keen actually declined it at first, and it wasn't until he realized his father was having problems that he Eventually agreed to it Wow, mm-hmm. So Keen was directed by the FBI to take it slow, but he was able to befriend him within a couple of months. Keen earned Hall's trust when he stood up for him. When Hall and the in his group of child killer friends we're trying to watch America's most wanted, he loved America's most wanted.
Speaker 1:Okay ironic, doesn't can we talk about? What do you mean? He mean these child killer friends.
Speaker 4:So a lot of people in the jail like his group of people was separate than everybody else. Nobody liked them, nobody talked to them, because they were the child killers.
Speaker 1:So that's what they had been accused of? Yes, Got it. So they all hung up together.
Speaker 4:Yeah and they were all quiet. Kind of awkward, though, what happened was another inmate came in and Changed the channel when they were watching America's most wanted which also there's America's most wanted episode on Jessica Roach, which I find kind of interesting. So Hall asked him to change it back, saying that they were watching it, and the inmate Refused to do so. So Keen got up and changed it back. This went back and forth until Keen and the inmate ended up getting into a fight and he ended up like kicking him across the room, and so this kind of won the trust of Hall because he stood up for him, and so Hall would eventually Invite him to spend time with him and his buddies and ask them to eat breakfast with him.
Speaker 4:And, like I mentioned before, if you want to fight, see more of how this played out, go watch Blackbird. Just because I think Keen is a little pompous. Yes, I mean he did a good thing. However, he's just cocky as hell about it. And a noise maintenance specific to Jessica Roach and Trisha Rytler In this part in the show you can see the torment that Jimmy Keen is going through having these discussions with Larry Hall, because he tries to probe him for, like you know, talk to him about girls. Yeah, if he's ever had sex with people or women and and he'll, at least in the Show, the actor that they got to play, hall, was like did it really well? I don't know his name, but he would talk about how they weren't moving and yeah, those are difficult conversations.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 4:Yes. So he was trying to get information that hadn't been released to the media, and the final thing that Keen had found before contacting the FBI Was that Hall had created a map of the area and had little dots where the bodies of the girls had been buried.
Speaker 1:Whoa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the actor's name is Paul Walter Hosser.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a funny picture, but he did an amazing job. But I've never seen like an interview or anything with the actual Larry Halls, so it makes me wonder how accurate that portrayal was. So he had a map with dots and then he had hand-carved Falcons that he had placed next to them. Why falcons, you ask? That is a very good question, because when Larry Hall was young and would work at the cemetery with his dad, he asked his father what the birds were that were in the trees and his father told him that they were falcons and that they were there to watch over the dead. So Larry Hall had carved falcons to watch over all the dead. Except there weren't just two falcons, there were 21, right? Why would there be 21 falcons if he just killed two people?
Speaker 5:Yep, nope, that makes sense, because why, why else? 21's a weird number to come up with.
Speaker 4:Anyways, I have a feeling there might be more. So Keen knew what he had, what he needed to cut the deal. So I did not tell you the deal. So basically, if Keen were to do this, he would be let out of prison ASAP and his record would be wiped clean.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 4:So it would be as a rest in jail. Time never happened, so he knew that Larry was going to be mailing this map to his brother and he had to act now. So he contacted the FBI agent in charge of his case to let them know. He got a voicemail and left a message, but in true cocky bastard fashion, Keen thought that they were going to come get him the following day. So he actually went and lost his shit on haul and let him have it telling him he was a disgusting human being and he deserved to stay in prison for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1:Oh no, he should never have done that. Keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 4:Right, right. Well, it took a couple days for the FBI to come and get him out there and in all the sources I had, there were two different versions of what happened to the map. In one, larry had mailed the map to his brother which his dad ended up burning, and in another source, they said that Larry himself had destroyed the map. Either way, the map was destroyed and they lost the evidence because Keen ruined it.
Speaker 4:However, there was enough information that Keen had gotten to prove that he had kidnapped Jessica Roach. The information he disclosed, the information about the belt, how Jessica Roach was strangled that was never released to the public. And also he talked about him folding the clothes of Trisha after he had assaulted and murdered her. So charges were never brought against haul for Trisha's murder, but he's doing life in prison now for the abduction not even the murder of Jessica Roach, but the abduction. But it was enough information for them to decline his appeal where he would stay in jail, which he's currently serving. And his brother, gary, actually got involved and went and tried to convince him to confess to more, and his brother actually convinced him to confess to 15 other murders in the area, and there are a few that his brother believes that he did 100%, but so Larry would confess.
Speaker 4:And then the next time you talk to him he rescinded all of the confessions. So Larry never has come out and said, yes, I did this and stood by it.
Speaker 5:I feel like with these guys, all they have left is the manipulation. So Bundy did the same thing, if I'm mistaken, and then there was another. I mean, I'm sure a lot of them have done it, but there's another serial killer that we know about. I feel like that's all they have is the manipulation of the back and forth back and forth that they have left.
Speaker 1:It's a game now. Yeah, they get off on it. Yeah, right.
Speaker 5:Like I'm in here for life or I'm on death row already.
Speaker 4:What's yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't play a little Well, and some people think that he had murdered up to 40 women and he would confess and then rescind, and confess and rescind, and so there's no knowing like what and he's never. He's never admitted to Trisha. But he's not on death row, right? He's?
Speaker 5:just at life in prison.
Speaker 2:Life in prison Okay.
Speaker 4:So he'll stay there without good thing.
Speaker 2:It was a federal case of parole.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he won't even get parole.
Speaker 5:I'm not really for the death penalty, so, personally, that's all I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4:So yeah, that's. That's the short version of Larry Hall, and it was so interesting. I've never heard of him before. I'm going to have to watch Blackbird. Yeah, it's very interesting.
Speaker 2:Highly recommend it. You know it's $6.99 a month for Apple TV plus. I think it was $6.
Speaker 5:They do not sponsor.
Speaker 1:No they don't. This episode is not sponsored by Apple TV plus it should be.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure there's like six episodes. When we were in Maine for the week during Labor Day week, I watched it and I fell in love. It was, it was amazing.
Speaker 4:It was Taryn, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was definitely.
Speaker 1:The rest of us were on the porch facing the water having a cocktail but Rob was holed up inside watching Blackbird.
Speaker 4:Yeah, my husband watched it with me and we finished it on a weekend, nice.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 4:Binge Isn't that interesting.
Speaker 2:Very.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Do you know what you're doing next?
Speaker 4:I want to do a case that I think I mentioned before. Yes, my sister's friend that was killed. That'd be good, and he's on, or he was on, death row, so there's a lot of death row. Yeah, that'd be interesting and and but this year is the 30 year anniversary of her death. I think that will be a good memory. And I also want to do another serial killer in Massachusetts that I didn't know about, lewis Lent, who was involved in the Berkshires in Pittsfield.
Speaker 1:I love it. I'd be really interested in that.
Speaker 4:Yes, and my mother-in-law, my in-laws, remember it. It happened in the 90s, so I kind of I'm going to try to get some audio of interviews of people who remember that That'd be so cool.
Speaker 5:Anyone's welcome, by the way. In person, yeah, if they want to come.
Speaker 4:I invite people all the time. Good, but no one is going to be. Jonathan, I know.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're such a sweetheart. It's true, though it's true, it's facts.
Speaker 4:We love having you here.
Speaker 1:I love being here, thank you.
Speaker 4:So you're just going to have to move, have a second home and and message we can always zoom him in or he can call in.
Speaker 5:It's not the same. No, no, we thank you, jonathan, though, for coming.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you guys, thank you for having me again.
Speaker 5:Thank you very much, Johnny. Thanks, Jess, for the wonderful story. Yes, Jess.
Speaker 4:And good night, morning, evening, whatever it is to our wanderers out there and I hope you all had a good Thanksgiving.
Speaker 5:If you celebrate, yes.
Speaker 1:Bye.
Speaker 5:Bye. Thanks for listening today. The show wouldn't be possible without our amazing producer and editor, Rob Fitzpatrick, who works tirelessly behind the scenes to bring you the best content and a special thanks to Tyga Soundprod for providing the captivating intro music.
Speaker 4:Cinematic intro 24.
Speaker 5:And of course, we can't forget the hauntingly beautiful outro music, Rhino's Theme, composed by Kevin MacLeod.
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