Introduction to the Episode

Hannah 0:06

So my mom, oh my mom, oh, my god, Courtney.

Courtney 0:09

Wow, I don't like where this is going already.

Cousin Marc 0:12

Oh boy Okay.

Hannah 0:25

Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney. Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal encounters and all things spooky.

Courtney 0:32

Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us. This is Wicked.

Hannah 0:39

Wanderings. All right, everybody, we have a special coming for you today. Hello Courtney, Hi Hannah, Hello Rob.

Rob 1:03

Hello.

Hannah 1:03

And hello, Cousin Mark.

Cousin Marc 1:06

Hello everybody, in the flesh, in the virtual flesh, in the virtual flesh, in the virtual flesh.

Hannah 1:13

This is a very impromptu episode, guys, but I called Cousin Mark. I was like hey, you busy.

Rob 1:19

No, this was pre-planned. What are you talking about?

Courtney 1:21

This was a true crime version of the you up text.

Cousin Marc 1:26

Pre-planned for you guys Surprised on me.

Courtney 1:29

You said we could surprise you whenever. To be fair, you did say you had a good time and we could always offer.

Rob 1:34

Always so, hannah? What are we doing today?

Hannah 1:36

Oh, we're doing trivia.

Rob 1:38

Trivia.

Hannah 1:39

Are we using the same trivia book? Well, we have Cousin Mark leading us today with his trivia book, and I'm very excited for this.

Rob 1:46

It's actually the same trivia book we have.

Hannah 1:48

Yes, but I don't know, have we used that one?

Rob 1:51

Yes, we have.

Hannah 1:51

Oh well, let's see what Cousin Mark has oh there you go.

Cousin Marc 1:54

Yeah, so mine is what cannibal has the highest victim count.

Hannah 2:00

All right. If it's not Dahmer, then I don't know if I know.

Cousin Marc 2:02

What it says here is while Jeffrey Dahmer is generally considered to be the only cannibal in the Western world to have amassed a substantial victim count of 17, one Russian serial killer trumps all when it comes to mass cannibalism Andre Ciccolito, also known as the Butcher of Rostov, was found guilty of 52 murders. Oh wow.

Courtney 2:29

Why does that name sound familiar? Did we read that fact? I might have sent it to you in the text. Oh wow, why does that name sound familiar? Did we read that fact?

Cousin Marc 2:32

I might have sent it to you in the text.

Courtney 2:34

That's true. He does keep us well informed on our daily true crime stuff.

Cousin Marc 2:38

Oh, I try so many involving acts of cannibalism. Chicalito grew up in the war-torn Russia in the 30s and 40s. That's a thing that I've noticed. A lot of the serial killers were born between 1930 and 1960. Read them through my books.

Courtney 2:56

That does line up a lot with what we've talked about too, Right?

Hannah 2:59

Yes, we noticed a lot of serial killers were coming out, like the 60s and 70s. There were tons.

Cousin Marc 3:03

So he targeted a wide range of victim types children of both genders, middle aged women and he would just lure them in places and then take them out. When he was being tried in court. They put him in a locked cage, not because they were afraid of him. They were afraid of everybody in the court going after him.

Courtney 3:28

Wow Interesting.

Cousin Marc 3:31

God, so it was more for the protection of him than it was the protection of everybody else, that's interesting.

Rob 3:38

It's very interesting.

Courtney 3:40

Cannibalism. I feel like cousin Mark picked that on purpose, cause he knows I don't like cannibals. Oh you and cannibalism, and you're smirking under all that facial hair and blushing too.

Rob 3:59

Cousin Mark, did you go to the website and see the AI-generated image of you that I used? I did, did you like it? I did that was pretty cool, okay. All right, that was pretty cool Okay.

Cousin Marc 4:10

All right, that was pretty cool.

Courtney 4:12

How come some of us got AI generated and some of us got our LinkedIn picture?

Rob 4:16

Okay, do you want me to change yours? Yes, it's my.

Courtney 4:19

LinkedIn picture from 2012.

Rob 4:21

Okay, it also says I'm a guest. It says you're a guest, yeah, no way. Yeah, no way, no, it's I'm a frequent guest. Okay, I will update our website accordingly.

Courtney 4:33

I think I'm going to make everyone. You don't have to upgrade my salary.

Rob 4:35

I'm going to All right All right, who's next?

Cousin Marc 4:39

then? Someone else go, I'll look for something else.

Rob 4:42

Your turn. Same book, different book.

Courtney 4:44

Oh, different book. Okay, that's the one that I got at Barnes Noble Different book. What's the name of this book? It is Totally Terrifying. True Crime Trivia by Brian Boone. We have not worked our way all the way through it yet. The Oakland County child killer gave a victim a notable last meal. Four children, two boys and two girls, disappeared from Oakland County, michigan, in 1976 and 1977. During a press conference, the mother of one of the boys pleaded for her child's safe return. She made an offhand comment about wanting to feed him his favorite meal, kentucky Fried Chicken. When he came home A few days later, all of the victim's bodies were found and one boy's stomach was his last meal, kentucky Fried Chicken. Aww, that boy's name was Timothy King.

Cousin Marc 5:29

Oh, wow, aww, oh.

Hannah 5:31

Oh.

Courtney 5:33

Is that your episode coming out? That is a sneak peek to my episode coming out next week.

Rob 5:38

Oh, there you go. All right, that sounds like it's going to be a multi episode.

Courtney 5:43

Yeah, it's one of those cases that just really I had prepped it for today and then last night I was doing some more research into it, just because I couldn't sleep. And what else better to do than look up serial killers? I know Cousin Mark gets me.

Cousin Marc 5:56

That's what I do.

Courtney 5:57

I found that there was actually a lot more connected to that one case than originally planned, so I'd rather be able to paint the whole picture. So it'll probably be a two-parter at least.

Cousin Marc 6:05

Very nice and you did see that they found the identification of Jack the Ripper.

Rob 6:12

Yeah, I did hear that.

Hannah 6:14

Actually is it weird that I'm upset about it. It kind of was this whole mystery of who Jack the Ripper was. It lost the allure.

Courtney 6:22

The allure, the allure.

Rob 6:24

Really yes.

Cousin Marc 6:26

Huh Something should be a mystery, yeah Huh, something should be a mystery, yeah. So Jack the Ripper was one of the first serial killers to capture. The public imagination was considered to be disorganized and a sociopath.

Hannah 6:41

Hmm, he had to be Polish right, was that?

Cousin Marc 6:43

what? Yeah? Yeah, he was a Polish barber.

Hannah 6:46

Which kind of like, if anyone's seen.

Rob 6:49

Sweeney Todd.

Hannah 6:50

Sweeney Todd, thank you yeah seen Sweeney Todd.

Cousin Marc 6:52

Sweeney Todd, thank you, yeah, I love Sweeney Todd. All right, here we go, here we go. Hannah. Oh boy, ted Bundy, generally considered to be the gold standard of psychopaths, exhibited high levels of sociopathy, particularly in his latter murders. I love Ted Bundy, I just have a weird thing about sociopaths.

Courtney 7:10

Lately I listened to a whole audiobook about one woman's journey through identifying as a sociopath. Oh God, so a very fascinating book, Absolutely fascinating.

Hannah 7:19

You did share that book with me.

Courtney 7:20

It was an audiobook so sometimes I don't count them. You know I get weird about that. But that makes sense. A lot of his later victims I could see that.

Cousin Marc 7:39

And they also said that a lot of the sociopathic serial killers tend to blitz, attack their victims to gain immediate control of the situation.

Rob 7:42

Which Bundy did that with the Omega murders, and then the 12-year-old little girl.

Cousin Marc 7:45

That's right, so you guys will have to share your book recommendations with me. Yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to build up a serial killer library.

Courtney 7:57

I bet the wife loves that Makes great living room display.

Cousin Marc 8:02

Oh yeah, they gave Ted Bundy the psychopath test, which you can get a possible 30 points out of it, and I'm pretty sure he came in at 28 wow surprised. Everything was it was either zero, one or two, so they'd ask you a question, and then you have to come up with a number as to what you think you are, and he came up with 28 out of 30 sounds like a qabfF.

Courtney 8:28

Immediately, my brain was like I hate using those.

Hannah 8:34

Yeah, I hate using those. Isn't that great?

Rob 8:36

All right, Hannah, you want to go next? Sure.

Hannah 8:39

Sorry, I took your turn. No, it's fine. I understand I can play in the sandbox. It's fine, just don't let it happen again. All right, edmund Kemper's sister tried to kill him on two occasions. Do you know this cousin, mark?

Hannah 8:55

not yet, oh, something he doesn't know. All right, ever, ever. Kemper survived two childhood murder attempts at the hands of his sister, susan, which supports the theory that the urge to kill may be hereditary or at least linked to children of the same parents growing up in the same damaging environment. She once tried to push him in front of a speeding train. She also threw him into the deep end of a pool, knowing he couldn't swim. Hmm.

Rob 9:19

Interesting.

Cousin Marc 9:20

When he was a kid, they used to play games of electric chair. They would strap him into a chair and then he would convulse like he was getting electrocuted. And then there were also times when they rolled him up in a rug. I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish with that one, but wow, did you know the only serial killer who ever successfully pleaded insanity was Ed Gein.

Courtney 9:41

I did actually know that one.

Rob 9:43

I did not know that. I don't even know who. That is the only one.

Cousin Marc 9:46

And then here you go, albert Fish. He's a nasty one, yeah, a man who claimed to have killed over 100 children and heard voices from God, pleaded insanity in 1935, but he was found sane and sentenced to death. Wow, he was the one that went to the family to try to get their son to come work on his farm as a ruse. To come work on his farm as a ruse. But then when he found out the son had a friend it was either a friend or a brother he decided that he couldn't overpower the two of them. And then Grace Budd walked in the daughter and immediately came up with a plan to take her away, and he talked the family into letting him take her and he ended up killing her. But the big part about that story was he had written a letter to the mother explaining everything that he did to her. He's a wheeze. Oh, he was a nightmare.

Hannah 10:41

The knowledge in this man's head is incredible.

Cousin Marc 10:45

It's just all random stuff. I need something to kickstart the memory.

Hannah 10:51

So I have another part to Edward Kemper's, which Cousin Mark probably will know. So Edward Kemper's confession was taken as a joke.

Cousin Marc 10:58

Yes, he had driven five hours into Utah, I think, and then decided to call the police. The police knew him because he hung out with him at the bar and when he first called he said that he killed him. And the guy goes ah Ed, you're a riot. He hung up on him. Wow, Sorry, Hannah, go ahead. No, you're good, You're right, he hung up on him. Wow Sorry, hannah, go ahead. No, you're good.

Rob 11:18

You're good, is that what you were going to say?

Hannah 11:20

I don't know yet I haven't read it.

Rob 11:21

Okay, it's me.

Hannah 11:23

I was being distracting with the dogs. So he committed his first murder at age 15 his mother and her best friend before fleeing. Wow. Shortly after he telephoned police to turn himself in, confessing his crimes and saying that he would be happy going about his life in prison. They thought it was a prank call, so he had to show up in person to turn himself in Wow.

Courtney 11:54

That's an interesting one. That's an interesting situation.

Cousin Marc 11:58

What happened was his mother couldn't handle him, so he sent him to go live with his father, but his father's new wife was creeped out by him because he was a big guy. I mean, he was bigger than you know, rob Rob's, you know six foot.

Courtney 12:15

No, no, no no, no, don't laugh. He usually goes to height. He's six foot. No, no, no, no, no, don't laugh.

Cousin Marc 12:20

He usually goes to height. He's six foot, rob's like six foot something, you know. Whatever he weighs, and Kemper was six, seven, three, fifty, you know.

Hannah 12:28

Wait, Cousin Mark, how tall are you?

Cousin Marc 12:30

No, I'm only five, nine.

Rob 12:32

Only five, nine.

Courtney 12:34

I'm just a short little guy, but Wait, but your brother's like tall, how tall are you Five, nine feels tall?

Rob 12:40

Yeah, matt's, six, three yeah.

Hannah 12:42

Well, wait. So who's older?

Rob 12:44

Mark.

Cousin Marc 12:45

Who's older Cousin, mark, I am the oldest one out of all the cousins.

Hannah 12:51

And when Patrick's the youngest.

Cousin Marc 12:53

Yes, and Patrick's the youngest Yep, that's adorable, yeah, so all of them girls and some of the boys are sandwiched in between us.

Hannah 13:02

Isn't this so interesting? So we have had the oldest cousin and the youngest cousin on the podcast. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's because they're the coolest, obviously.

Cousin Marc 13:10

So Kemper left his father's house and moved in with his grandparents. So his grandfather had bought him a gun a 22 rifle and his grandmother was pissed off that he kept shooting things. So he ended up shooting his grandmother. Oh yeah, then he went outside and waited for his grandfather to come home because he was out shopping. So what happened was he shot his grandfather because he didn't want his grandfather to go into the house to see that his wife was dead.

Courtney 13:42

Oh God, sometimes the logic in people really confuses me. But he was 15 years old. Yeah, he's not expected to have logic at 15.

Cousin Marc 13:50

No, so he calls his mother up and he says what he did and she goes well, then you're going to own it. Call the police and wait for him.

Courtney 14:00

That's some good parenting right there.

Cousin Marc 14:02

Yeah, well, that woman deserved everything she got. Yeah, we'll have to do an episode on Kemper.

Hannah 14:08

He definitely seems like a fascinating guy.

Cousin Marc 14:11

Oh, he was. He was definitely interesting so there was a killer. There was a serial killer duo that were called the Toolbox Killers. Oh, I've heard of that. They were Roy Norris and Lauren Spittaker. Okay, they wanted to kill one girl of every age in the team.

Rob 14:30

I've heard of them.

Cousin Marc 14:46

And they also took cassette recordings of one of the times they tortured one of the women. And what happens is is that the FBI now uses that tape to train their agents to try to withstand empathy for the brutality of everything that was going on on the recording.

Courtney 14:53

Gosh, that's some training. I would really love to see I'm not being funny like the data on how well it works because I feel like that would like some people would respond really well to that kind of training and some people would not respond well to that at all okay, should I read the next one?

Hannah 15:07

yes, yes randy craft's meticulous note-taking got him convicted. Hmm, interesting so he murdered oh you know this guy, I do.

Hannah 15:18

I know him his own notes. He murdered primarily hitchhikers with military backgrounds in the 1970s and 80s. His killing ground spanned oregon, california and michigan. In 1983 he was arrested by the california highway patrol, who immediately spotted some fairly damning evidence a dead body sitting in the passenger seat. Oh yeah, that will do in the passenger seat, not not the. Will do it in the passenger seat, not not the trunk, like the other guy we talked about with the no license plate. A further investigation of the car turned up a briefcase that contained craft's diary full of detailed notes on the deaths of 60 people.

Courtney 15:49

He was ultimately convicted of 16 murders wow, you would really keep evidence of that many murders in one book and then lose it. But they were they were all.

Cousin Marc 15:58

Hold on, let me pull them up. They were all listed as where he found them. Yeah, he was known as, I think, the scorecard killer.

Courtney 16:07

Ooh well, that would make sense.

Cousin Marc 16:09

Yeah, 16 to 76 victims.

Hannah 16:12

I have more on him, Cousin Mark.

Rob 16:14

Continue then.

Hannah 16:15

Yeah, but I did what's that? I have more on him. Oh, go ahead, go Okay. So, yeah, it does talk about calling it a scorecard. So the piece of evidence that was damning for him was those journals that he claimed was a party invite list. So it was basically a scorecard. He kept, seemingly, of his murders Through a series of codes. Kraft kept very detailed notes about exactly how he tortured and killed as many as 61 victims, and investigators found that 43 entries lined up perfectly with the circumstances of specific murders. Kraft claimed that the list was actually a coded journal of his sexual conquest. Oh boy. Then he later said it was a list of housewarming party invites for his boyfriend.

Courtney 16:53

Interesting. That's out of all the things you could say it's a list of that's creative.

Cousin Marc 16:58

Sometimes he mutilated and tortured his victims while they were still alive.

Courtney 17:03

Oh, that's never a fun one to hear either. Yummy.

Cousin Marc 17:07

This book is awesome. Have you gotten much through it? What I do is is I'll be watching something on TV and they'll talk about someone, and then I'll go to the book to make sure that they're in there. So there's two volumes of that. I got one in hardcover, one in softcover.

Courtney 17:24

Oh OK, four famous serial killers became friends behind bars. Ok, any guesses? Cousin Mark, you know who they are, not yet. All right In 1989, San Quentin State Prison in California was the home of four captured and convicted serial killers Lawrence Bittaker, William Bittaker, William Boney.

Rob 17:47

Bonin.

Courtney 17:48

No, it's just B-O-N-I.

Cousin Marc 17:51

Boney B-O-N-I-N. William Bonin was the freeway killer.

Courtney 17:57

Did he misspell it? No, no, it's a different guy.

Cousin Marc 18:01

Now I do know all of those You're going with Lawrence Bitteker, the toolbox killer that I just talked about, bonin and then Kearney.

Hannah 18:11

My phone's up there Was it Kearney. I was going to look it up, because if yours is spelled differently, or maybe they misspelled it, well, it says it's Lawrence Bittaker, william Boney, randy Kraft and Douglas Clark.

Cousin Marc 18:24

Douglas Clark. Okay, yeah, well, she just talked about Randy Kraft.

Courtney 18:28

Yeah, that's probably why they connected them.

Cousin Marc 18:30

Yeah, some of them I haven't heard of, but Lawrence Bittaker was the one with Roy Norris with the Toolbox Killers.

Courtney 18:36

Oh, oh, okay, Okay, yeah. So these four guys together. Yeah, guys formed what they called the San Quentin Bridge Club. Every day they got together and just played cards.

Rob 18:50

At San Quentin, yeah, which is a prison in California. I listened to a podcast about San Quentin. It's called.

Courtney 18:57

Ear.

Rob 18:57

Hustle, and it takes place inside San Quentin. It's called Ear Hustle and it takes place inside San Quentin.

Special Guest Appearance by Cousin Mark

Cousin Marc 19:02

Courtney, who was the last one you said? Did you say Doug Clark? Yeah, douglas Clark. Doug Clark was known as the Hollywood Slasher, the Sunset Strip Killer and the Sunset Strip Slayer.

Courtney 19:16

I feel like maybe we read a different trivia thing for him one other time, because I recognize the. You said that was the Hollywood Killer, the Hollywood Slasher.

Cousin Marc 19:24

Hollywood Slasher Sounds really familiar, the Sunset Strip Killer. He was active from June of 80 to August of 80, and he had seven victims.

Courtney 19:34

Wow, that is quite a lot of victims for only approximately three months.

Cousin Marc 19:39

Yeah, june August. He died of natural causes after 40 years on death row.

Courtney 19:45

That's kind of ironic.

Cousin Marc 19:47

I mean why? Why keep him alive that long? You're supposed to kill him? Kill him already.

Courtney 19:52

I guess it depends on the situation they were there for? Yeah the answer probably depends.

Hannah 19:56

So we're back to Edmund kemper. Apparently, and uh so apparently police officers loved him. So when his crimes were being investigated, edmund kemper befriended detectives on the case. Uh, he figured out, they frequented a cop bar called the jury room and became such a fixture that they openly discussed the cases with him. Well, stupid after he turned himself in. The police were shocked that quote unquote Big Ed, all friendly and jovial, was the same person as the evil co-ed killer, wow Huh.

Cousin Marc 20:24

Yeah, he really hated his mother. She was just ruthless to him. Yeah, she made him sleep in the basement.

Courtney 20:32

Oh, it was a basement.

Cousin Marc 20:34

Yeah, she made him sleep in the basement because she was always afraid that he was going to do something to his sister.

Courtney 20:41

We talked about him the last time we podcasted, because I remember you saying that.

Cousin Marc 20:45

Yeah, Kemper had an IQ of 145 and they didn't believe it. They retested him. He tested higher. Wow, he quoted. When I see a pretty girl walking down the street, I think two things. One part of me wants to take her out, talk to her, be real nice, sweet and treat her right.

Cousin Marc 21:02

And the other part of me wonders what her head would look like on a stick. Oh Wow, because that's normal. Yikes, one of the girls that he killed. He made a joke about it, decapitated her and then buried the head outside his mother's window, facing up at her. He said because his mother always liked to look down on people. Oh wow, that's yeah that's dark.

Hannah 21:29

That is dark, yes, it is because, mark, I think you were the glue that held this whole recording together it was definitely you. Whatever I can do, oh my god, I'll do my best because we recorded my episode right before this and it went okay it went a lot better than this did. Yeah, it's just I don't know, like let's record one more. I'm like, let me see if cousin mark's available. Thank you, maybe it's just a friday night thing, I don't know I don't know all right well all right.

Courtney 21:59

Well, I can't forget to say goodbye, because that'll be bad.

Rob 22:01

So thank you, cousin mark because courtney like suggests end episodes and then rob's like, well, what the fuck am I supposed to do for an ending?

Courtney 22:09

and then courtney texts him back and suggests he could just use one of the old ones we have, and he goes silent because that's what he does, but he doesn't want everyone to know it.

Rob 22:18

I took a combination of your full goodbye and a little bit of New Year's, because even the goodbye that you guys recorded was like a half goodbye, because you cut Hannah off saying goodbye, yeah.

Courtney 22:34

So I'm too quick for the board.

Rob 22:37

Yeah, anyways.

Courtney 22:39

Anyways, we appreciated you coming again, Cousin Mark.

Rob 22:42

Oh, you know what? Actually, before we end this episode, let's do a card. All right, so let's do a card. Anna, you want to pick a card, any card.

Hannah 22:53

Maybe we should have Cousin Mark do it.

Cousin Marc 22:55

Here we go, we have the Eight of Hearts. Okay, so it is William Bill Zidensky Zidensky.

Hannah 23:04

On.

Cousin Marc 23:04

February 2nd 2018,. The victim was found deceased in his house at 24 Clinton Street in Ware with multiple wounds. Oh, oh. If you have any info about this case, please call 1-855-MA-SALL. So he's from Ware. Oh, if you have any info about this case, please call 1-855-MASAL. So he's from where.

Hannah 23:23

Yeah, that's close to you Court.

Rob 23:25

Where Massachusetts it's actually a town. If you're not from Massachusetts, it's W-A-R-E.

Cousin Marc 23:32

Yes, that's from where, and I'm from where, ham.

Hannah 23:36

Where ham See. My mom was asking where you were from, and I was from Wareham, See my mom was asking where you were from and I was like I know it's near where Cape.

Rob 23:42

Cod starts. Yeah, I always say Middleborough.

Cousin Marc 23:45

I mean, it's basically over there. Wareham is the gateway to Cape Cod.

Courtney 23:49

That's why you thought that, because he said that last time. Yes, yes.

Cousin Marc 23:52

Yes, that's how I remembered. I don't remember what I said last time A lot of things.

Rob 23:59

Well, good thing it's on the record.

Cousin Marc 24:02

That's true. Yeah, there you go, I do know that if the gloves fit.

Courtney 24:12

Cousin Mark, just when I thought.

Rob 24:14

I liked you. I'm not a happy. No, yes, courtney Hannah C, courtney Hannah, cousin Mark, thank you very much and it was a pleasure being back on the episode anytime, I'm ready to go bye y'all bye thanks for listening today.

Hannah 24:37

Wicked Wanderings is hosted by me Hannah and co-hosted by me Courtney.

Rob 24:41

And it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick.

Hannah 24:44

Music by Sasha N. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave a rating and review and be sure to follow on all socials. You can find the links down in the show notes. If you're looking for some really cozy t-shirts or hoodies, head over to the merch store. Thank you for being a part of the Wicked Wanderings community. We appreciate every one of you. No-transcript.