Cousin Marc: 0:00

That sounds pretty good.

Courtney: 0:01

Is something on fire. I'm sorry, cousin Mark. No, no, I can smell something burning. Burning, yes, I smell a burning. Smell. Well, there's candles on. It's like when you leave the iron on. It's like when you leave the iron on for too long. Yes, oh, my God.

Cousin Marc: 0:17

The kitchen's on fire.

Courtney: 0:18

Is there a fire? Hey, hang on, there's a fire.

Cousin Marc: 0:24

Oh boy, Don't burn the house down.

Courtney: 0:25

I'm getting water, I'm getting water.

Cousin Marc: 0:29

Holy shit people. They're talking about getting water and throwing water on. Hopefully, everything's okay. I don't know if I should put it on the top or. Oh God, okay, okay, that was just a big flash.

Rob: 0:45

Okay.

Hannah: 0:56

Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.

Courtney: 1:02

Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal encounters and all things spooky, Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us.

Hannah: 1:08

This is Wicked Wanderings. Hello Courtney, hi Hannah and hello Mark.

Cousin Marc: 1:31

Welcome back here in the virtual flesh. In the virtual flesh.

Courtney: 1:34

We are here for part two of Mark's episode. So if you haven't listened to last week's episode, make sure you go back and listen to that one first, so you don't miss any of the details. There you go, Trust me.

Hannah: 1:43

Last week's episode was really interesting.

Courtney: 1:45

You don't want to miss it.

Cousin Marc: 1:46

No, no, you don't want to miss that. This guy was quite the character. Although at first you did open by saying he was a nice gentleman, this nice clean-cut gentleman. But you know, I opened that way because that is exactly how he looked. He looked very presentable, nothing like a monster, and I'm bringing him up just like Bundy.

Courtney: 2:10

Oh, five minutes and 50 seconds in, and Mark brings up Bundy.

Hannah: 2:15

Love a good Bundy.

Cousin Marc: 2:16

That's it. You look at these guys and they really don't look like they're what they do. Yep, that's what makes it so scary?

Courtney: 2:24

That's what makes it so scary, is it's what makes? It so scary, is it's it's right, hiding in plain sight? Yep, absolutely.

Cousin Marc: 2:29

And that brings us into part two, where he's becoming more brazen and he's looking for publicity.

Courtney: 2:37

Okay, you got me hooked. I'm interested.

Cousin Marc: 2:39

Yeah, just like. Um, just like BTK did when he you know writes a letter to the editor of the newspaper and says how many people do I have to kill before I get any recognition?

Hannah: 2:52

Look at me, look at me.

Cousin Marc: 2:53

That's it. That's how these people are. They're only looking for themselves and their own gratification.

Courtney: 2:59

Attention. Motivated function attention.

Cousin Marc: 3:01

That's right. So, with him looking to be in the spotlight, the police are making a plea to get him to turn himself in. Obviously, you know that doesn't happen Right At this point. There now starts a series of letters that were written and sent to the police office. They were sent to the lab to see if they could get any biological things off of it, and one of the things that they had found was that the person who wrote the letter was a bee secretor, so they had the blood mixed with the semen when things like that happened, which only 6% of men have it.

Courtney: 3:36

Wait, wait, wait a minute. We've had that conversation before on a different episode. I think too. Yeah, maybe it was.

Hannah: 3:45

I think I also found it when I was doing the Babysitter. Can someone please remind me about that conversation?

Courtney: 3:48

Hannah might have been three sheets, to the wind maybe four Listen.

Rob: 3:51

Maybe, seven.

Courtney: 3:52

Listen, we did. We had that conversation about how only a certain percentage of men have that and that was another case. We were talking about that. That was how they determined that that was somebody they were looking at, because they fit that profile as well.

Cousin Marc: 4:07

Yeah, and back then, at this time, that was the only thing they could do was analyze blood types and whatnot. After the letter showed up, there was a cassette tape that he was using to taunt the police, of course, throwing things out there and saying different things about how you're not going to catch me and this, and that Almost like the Jack the Ripper letters that was sent during that time, the Dear Boss letters.

Hannah: 4:34

I always feel like these are the kids that were like, that were really good at tag You're not going to catch me. You're not going to catch me.

Courtney: 4:41

So was he using his actual voice on the cassette or was he like misconstruing?

Cousin Marc: 4:46

it.

Courtney: 4:46

He was Very, very ballsy, I figured because he was attention seeking, that it was like I'm hiding right in plain sight. I don't even have to do anything to hide it.

Cousin Marc: 4:55

That's it. We come to this point where, april of 79, he takes the life of 19 year old Josephine Whitaker. He takes the life of 19-year-old Josephine Whitaker this is the one that we had talked about before where he had her helping look at the vehicle because the vehicle wouldn't start. Why is it? He ended up killing her when she was looking under the hood and he dragged her out into a field.

Courtney: 5:19

Right, that's right. We did talk about that.

Cousin Marc: 5:22

Yeah, she wasn't a prostitute. The drag marks indicated she was attacked at the road and was dragged into the field. He was not a prostitute. So that showed everybody that all women were at risk. Right, because the police at this time were watching the red light district and he knew that they were doing this For him to go find a prostitute and do his thing.

Hannah: 5:46

He was changing his actions up to throw him off was it now that they just might have looked a little alluring and then he just assumed she was a prostitute? Or is he just changing his mo like totally? Does anyone speculate?

Courtney: 6:00

or he's changing it because he's trying to see how far he can push the police. That's what it sounds like he's described.

Cousin Marc: 6:07

Yes, plus, it was all, as we were getting into it last week, was the fact that he hated women.

Hannah: 6:13

Right yeah.

Cousin Marc: 6:14

Because he had the issue with his mother cheating on his father, and his father showed him everything. It started off with prostitutes because they were easy targets. Then he just started grabbing people off the street.

Courtney: 6:25

And prostitutes have the sex work piece as well. So it's probably easier in his brain to say like women are, you know, whatever the thing he thinks about their sexual acts. And then he finds women who do that for work, and I'm sure that that's an easy, easy generalization for him to make.

Cousin Marc: 6:41

Yeah, a couple of letters were still coming in. The police still had the audio tapes for him to make. Yeah, a couple of letters were still coming in. The police still had the audio tapes. They had a stamp on the envelope from the post office and a voice that had an accent that narrowed where he could be from.

Hannah: 6:56

Let me guess Yorkshire.

Cousin Marc: 6:57

Oh it was. It was like a. I think they said it was like a Cockney accent.

Hannah: 7:03

Oh, okay.

Cousin Marc: 7:04

Which was in a different part of England.

Hannah: 7:07

It's amazing, just for such a small part of a continent, how their accents do change.

Courtney: 7:12

It really is amazing. I mean, ours are kind of like that too, yeah but America's huge.

Hannah: 7:17

America's huge, though. Listen to Mark talk.

Cousin Marc: 7:19

Yeah, but you guys are out there with your accent and then I'm out here with the Boston accent.

Courtney: 7:24

Do we have an accent? We do we have an accent.

Cousin Marc: 7:28

Yeah, yours is more Connecticut-based.

Hannah: 7:30

Ew what no one likes Connecticut.

Cousin Marc: 7:33

I know that, but I didn't say New York, so Does mine sound like dragons.

Hannah: 7:38

Where the dragons are from.

Courtney: 7:40

I don't know if he knows that story, Does he? I can't. So when I went to college a quick segue I went to Maine for two years and then I went to Worcester State for my last two years, and so when I moved into Worcester State, my dad's helping me move my stuff in and somebody. My dad will talk to anybody. He's like the mayor of every place he's ever been, so somebody said oh, where are you from?

Courtney: 8:00

And he was like the Berkshires. And they immediately were like, oh, where the dragons are. And he was like, uh, sure, I guess. And then every person who asked us for the rest of that day we got in the truck. He's like what the fuck do they mean where the dragons are? And we never understood.

Hannah: 8:12

People sometimes will still say it to me and I'm like I don't know what that means yeah, like I've never heard that it's very odd, and people in worcester area seem to be the ones that do it, and I'm like you know you're really not that far from Western Mass right, at least from this section of Western Mass, like the lower part of Western Mass, I know everyone will call North Adams and up like the armpit of Massachusetts, which isn't lovely at all. I'm a dragon loving armpit.

Cousin Marc: 8:44

I've always said about Massachusetts, it's got that little bump on the bottom part of the state above Connecticut.

Hannah: 8:50

Yeah, yeah, I actually have the tattoo, so it's got that little bump right there, spring-filly Salmonella dips, yeah, dips it, yeah yeah.

Rob: 8:59

Hi there, Rob, here from the future editing this lovely podcast. I just wanted to come on here and give you a quick correction. That little part that dips down into Connecticut is actually Southwick Massachusetts, and in fact in the 1800s there was a war between Connecticut and Massachusetts for that parcel of land. And now back to the podcast.

Cousin Marc: 9:26

That is the little tab that holds it from sliding into the ocean.

Courtney: 9:31

I mean, I do like to think we are the backbone.

Cousin Marc: 9:35

Yeah, we are, hey, we're all started right.

Courtney: 9:38

Sure, that's right All right, so back to the killing Back to mid, the only context you can say that in appropriately.

Cousin Marc: 9:46

That's it. So this time he gets Barbara Leach in September of 79. So he's got a few months now. He only had a short walk home but she never made it. That one was tough for most people and it started to rile up the public again. The public was trying everything they could do to protect the women and this is where it started to aggravate the women of England. They were told to go nowhere without a male companion.

Courtney: 10:12

I would drive you nuts.

Cousin Marc: 10:15

And they're pissed off because that's who's doing. This is the men.

Courtney: 10:18

Right yeah.

Cousin Marc: 10:19

You know there's a guy out there taking all this up yeah, out there taking all this up. All this time the police formed Project R, a massive PR campaign to get the public engaged with finding the Ripper. They did massive advertising with the Ripper's handwriting for all of them to look at, and then they were continuously playing the tapes in different places for them to hear the voice. And one of the investigators was reading the letters and he actually made a connection with Jack the Ripper. Wait a minute, the way he was writing the letters. It was almost like the Dear Boss letters were scripts for him to write his letter.

Hannah: 11:05

Okay.

Cousin Marc: 11:06

The same way Jack the Ripper haunted the police Like a glorifying of Jack. This was when they figured out that it was a hoax. The letters, the tapes, it was all sent in by this crackpot that was looking to get publicity.

Courtney: 11:26

Oh my God. So it wasn't even the person who was doing it.

Cousin Marc: 11:29

No, so the police were all going down one avenue and it wasn't even the right one.

Courtney: 11:34

And that's so sad too too, because there was probably so much money and manpower and all of those resources were dumped into this one.

Cousin Marc: 11:42

Oh yeah, billions of dollars, oh god that's a lot, that's a that's a lot of space palm.

Courtney: 11:48

Moment yeah, thanks, asshole right, maybe he paid him 20 bucks to do it, yeah.

Cousin Marc: 11:55

Yeah, he might have A five pound note.

Courtney: 11:58

Right, that's true. Yeah, england, he better bring the change, though, right.

Cousin Marc: 12:42

That's right. So Maureen Leah was a lecturer at the University of Bedfordshire and she was appalled that she was thought of as a prostitute, because he ended up attacking her.

Hannah: 12:57

Well, I could see why she'd be pissed about that.

Courtney: 12:59

Yeah, I'd be more pissed that he attacked me, but yeah.

Cousin Marc: 13:02

And she survived, and she just was beside herself that I'm a college professor working on things and you think I'm a prostitute, to kind of take me out.

Courtney: 13:13

Maybe she was a threat to something he was trying to do on the back end.

Cousin Marc: 13:16

Yeah, very possible. Was there an a threat to something he was trying to do on the back end? Yeah, very possible.

Hannah: 13:18

Was there an age range to these women at all? I was just going to ask that.

Cousin Marc: 13:21

In my notes I have all the ages down. The youngest one I think was 16. Oh, wow, okay, was it 16 or 12?

Courtney: 13:30

Oh geez, that's pretty young Either way 16.

Cousin Marc: 13:32

The youngest one was 16. I think the oldest one was 41. Most of his attacks were just opportunity.

Hannah: 13:42

And this isn't grandma he's attacking either.

Cousin Marc: 13:45

No, most likely he had his girlfriend that was cheating on him, which was young, and then his mother, who was older, was cheating on her father. So he looked like he was targeting women cheating on her father, you know. So he was looked like he was targeting women in those age groups In November of 80, so we just went over a year before he attacks again. He was attacked on a Monday night and the police found a bloody handbag on Monday, but nothing else. On Tuesday a passerby found her only 60 yards from the handbag.

Courtney: 14:19

Looked really, hard, I guess.

Cousin Marc: 14:21

Yeah, and the public again was really pissed that the police just dropped the ball on that one, right? So guess what the police do? Uh-oh, they put a curfew on the women. So this man's killing these women and the women that are out there are being segregated.

Courtney: 14:41

Wouldn't that have made more sense to put a curfew on the men? I? Know, why are they penalizing us, the people who are killing at home or what?

Hannah: 14:49

Now he knows they're all at home.

Courtney: 14:50

You can just break into any house and there's probably a woman there, jeezum.

Cousin Marc: 14:54

They organized a march that night that they did that and all of them were all past the curfew Hell yeah, the women were pissed.

Courtney: 15:06

I'm pissed and it happened now, right. They didn't mention anything about burning bras, so Well, I guess that was a fight for a different time. It was a fight for a different time yeah. Free the nipple later.

Cousin Marc: 15:21

They had to free themselves first yeah, we gotta make sure we can get out to free the nipple exactly exactly free the women. Then the nipple got it free the women, then free the girls a new t-shirt for cousin mark free, mark Free the world for you.

Hannah: 15:38

Free the girls I'm going to work on the Canva after this. Well now I know. I'm going to do it too, and I'm not going to send it before we're both ready.

Cousin Marc: 15:51

Now we get interesting. In January of 81, a police officer spots a man with a female in the car and he runs the plates and finds out that they don't match the car that they're on.

Courtney: 16:04

He did a switcheroo.

Cousin Marc: 16:06

So, again, trying to be inconspicuous, you do one of the biggest things that just brings a red flag to you.

Courtney: 16:14

Right, you're better off just keeping the plates that were on the car on the car and not doing anything sketchy.

Hannah: 16:19

Right, because what was the other? Case we did with you Cousin Mark, where he just didn't have a plate at all and he had the body in the trunk.

Cousin Marc: 16:25

That was Joel Rifkin. Yeah, yeah.

Courtney: 16:27

Yeah.

Cousin Marc: 16:29

He's like gee, let me take the plate off and the police won't notice me.

Courtney: 16:32

No, no, they'll notice you twice as much.

Cousin Marc: 16:35

But that's the thing and that's how they caught Bundy. Bundy was driving erratically. The cop pulled him over for a DUI Right. It's not any smart police work, no, it's just being at the right place and getting the right person.

Courtney: 16:50

Luck of the draw and doing your job correctly.

Cousin Marc: 16:52

That's it. Yeah, he's got them detained. So the guy that's there. He says I need to relieve myself. So the officer allows him to go off to the side of the road to relieve himself, which is where he threw the hammer and the screwdriver that was in his pockets. Oh my.

Hannah: 17:08

God, Do you know how many cops episodes I watch now they're like who are you going to pick? We'll talk about that in a minute.

Courtney: 17:16

Like or a cigarette? We oh, I want a pee, yeah, we'll talk about that in a minute. Or a cigarette? We'll talk about that in a minute. Or at least just go stand nearby so if they drop something, you'll hear it. You don't have to watch, but you'll be able to hear.

Hannah: 17:22

Well, I understand if they're trying to give the man dignity on his own, but like yeah, but you're looking at him for something suspicious.

Cousin Marc: 17:30

So I feel like he had him in front of you like this and you just pull it out of your jacket and toss it. It's like when you were kids.

Courtney: 17:40

How big was this man? He's got tools in his pockets. He was just happy to see him. Right, exactly, there's Hannah's sticker. It'll be a hammer coming out of a pair of pants that says just happy to see you, it's like the flasher Hi.

Cousin Marc: 17:58

So the officer arrests both of them for solicitation and everything like that. So he brings him in and he just so happens to look up at the artist sketch that was in the police precinct. He goes wait a second, this guy looks exactly like that and you'd figure with everything that they got going on trying to find this guy, the officer would have been a little more diligent.

Cousin Marc: 18:22

Yeah, knowing that he looks like somebody, oh man, it makes no sense. You know, even back then it doesn't even look like people had common sense then either. But the officer eventually realizes that while he's there, so they have him, he goes. Wait a second, I let that guy go relieve himself, I'm going back there to sweep the area. And that's when he ended up finding the hammer and the screwdriver and realized who he had. He had Peter Williams Sutcliffe, 35 years old, and while he was in custody gave a detailed confession. Oh, just came right out and you guys are not going to believe this story, I have to tell you. And he just off, he goes.

Hannah: 19:13

Oh God, okay, I wasn't expecting that, yeah no, that took a very hard right there.

Cousin Marc: 19:20

Oh, he did not give up any fight at all, just a big wuss.

Hannah: 19:26

Just a big wuss. Just a big wuss.

Cousin Marc: 19:29

Yeah, folded like a change lounge.

Courtney: 19:34

The puns. The puns are great. Like I don't know what to say. I feel like that's like so, like you're like building and building, and then it's like then he gave up anti-climatic yeah yeah, listen, I don't tell the story.

Cousin Marc: 19:50

This story's already been told.

Courtney: 19:52

I'm just you're just telling me when. Yeah that's it.

Hannah: 19:56

You're saying you have no control how the Yorkshire Ripper ended.

Cousin Marc: 20:00

No man, but I do know he pled guilty to 13 counts of manslaughter by reason of insanity.

Courtney: 20:06

Ah, he was going for the insanity part.

Cousin Marc: 20:09

He figured if he was insane he'd go to asylum and, you know, live out the rest of his life in comfort I mean honestly During that time. As you know, live out the rest of his life in comfort.

Hannah: 20:17

I mean honestly, during that time, Asylum's worse.

Courtney: 20:18

Yeah, I don't know that, an asylum versus prison, I would take asylum. I think I would have taken prison at that time.

Cousin Marc: 20:23

He ended up taking the stand in his own defense, but it really didn't help him out that much.

Hannah: 20:28

Okay, what is with these guys defending themselves, taking the stand by themselves?

Courtney: 20:32

That's the insane part for me. That's the insane part for me. That's where I'm like oh there's insanity right there.

Cousin Marc: 20:36

Well, three psychologists came to the conclusion of he was a paranoid schizophrenic, but his wife had suffered from it, so he knew all the symptoms.

Courtney: 20:48

He knew how to show all the signs that that's what he was doing.

Hannah: 20:50

Well, that's an interesting point. Exactly, I don't have ADHD, but I know Rob has ADHD. I could manifest as having ADHD easily for a little while.

Courtney: 21:01

I mean, and ADHD is one of those things that looks different in men and women. But, like you're friends with me and you see how mine looks.

Hannah: 21:06

You could just copy what I do and be like.

Courtney: 21:09

OK, now I've got ADHD. Yeah, interesting.

Cousin Marc: 21:12

So the jury had to decide if he was crazy or if he was faking it.

Courtney: 21:16

Oh man, that's got to be hard. Yeah, I don't even know.

Cousin Marc: 21:18

They ended up figuring out that he was sane and he got a minimum of 30 years, which that drives me nuts. You know you killed all these people 30 years, ok yeah. And you get a minimum of 30 years and then you're up for parole.

Courtney: 21:34

Right, yeah, you shouldn't be getting parole, and then you're up for parole, right?

Cousin Marc: 21:36

Yeah, you shouldn't be a gang girl. Their laws over there just make no sense to me.

Courtney: 21:40

Yeah, then you're thinking like what never makes sense to me when there's, like, you see, there's 13 people that he pled guilty to. How many years per person's life are we talking?

Hannah: 21:51

What's right?

Courtney: 21:52

That's like how can you put a year? It's like two years and a month for each person. And that's what somebody's life equates out to human life equates out to two years and a month of imprisonment.

Cousin Marc: 22:04

Yeah, yeah, well, see, what I would do is I would take their age, okay, and then what would be their life expectancy? Yeah, and how old do you think they could live to? And then those are the years that you get for each person.

Courtney: 22:19

I think that makes sense. I actually would vote in favor of that.

Cousin Marc: 22:23

You know, if you kill a 14 year old like Dharma, did you know that 14 year old could have lived till he was 70.?

Courtney: 22:29

You took a lot of life from somebody, so someone should take a lot of life from you. Yeah.

Cousin Marc: 22:33

Yeah, yeah, I don't think you should have free. You should have even even the thought that you could get out. Yeah, you shouldn't have yeah, that whole piece, I agree after he was found guilty and things were moving on, the police that were working on all this, all the head investigators and everything like that they all got demoted. Oh shit, they were given lesser jobs because they clearly did not know what the hell they were doing in this investigation that kind of sucks.

Courtney: 23:05

But I mean oh well, yeah, more botched police work.

Cousin Marc: 23:09

Yeah, my episode was all about it too, it's just yeah, it's not like being a weather person here in the united states, where you can get the weather wrong and you know, oh well we'll wake up tomorrow and see what it looks like. Right, she was found guilty in may of 81. In march of 84 he was moved to an asylum. Oh, because he basically just went nuts being in prison.

Courtney: 23:36

All the confinement.

Cousin Marc: 23:38

Yeah. So they ended up moving on, or he was pretending again. Well, they obviously thought there was enough to move him. That's true. Then, in November of 92, he confessed to two more attacks that the women survived, and they didn't even charge him.

Hannah: 23:53

But like. What was the point in that?

Cousin Marc: 23:55

Because he again again looking for attention. So I come out and I say I did this.

Courtney: 24:02

Now everybody's looking at me again right, yeah, and it was just as people are starting to forget about who he was and what he did.

Cousin Marc: 24:08

Yeah and there was no sense in charge of him because he was already in prison.

Courtney: 24:13

So unfortunately that's a tough part that sucks because, especially for two women who survived it, yeah, there's no justice for those people. They didn't get their moment to confront that situation head-on and come to peace for themselves because the person who did it to them received justice but that happens all the time it does. It just sucks maybe that's my inner woman just being like. I see how often that happens to women and they don't get that moment to confront their attacker if they choose to.

Cousin Marc: 24:39

Yeah, yeah. And then in 94, he confessed to killing Marguerite Walls, which brought his total to 13. And they didn't even know that he had killed her either.

Courtney: 24:50

Did he have to go back to trial for that one, or did they just shrug no, I don't think no, they didn't do anything. Oh, that poor family.

Cousin Marc: 24:59

But it does have a happy ending, though. For who? Because he did die. He did die in November of 2020 due to COVID complications.

Courtney: 25:10

Well, bye for now. Yeah, and I don't love the idea of anybody dying, but but he only served 13 years before he died. So that's really not that long.

Cousin Marc: 25:23

No, it's not.

Courtney: 25:23

And he only served a few years before he was sent to the asylum.

Cousin Marc: 25:26

so yes, yep, but that was William Sutcliffe.

Courtney: 25:31

Jeez, I guess my final reflection is that I can't end the episode with the same way you started the last one. I guess my final reflection is that I can't end the episode with the same way you started the last one. I don't think he's a fine gentleman, no.

Cousin Marc: 25:42

No.

Courtney: 25:42

Coward, maybe Douche canoes for certain.

Cousin Marc: 25:46

Yes, big douche canoe Definitely a douche canoe.

Courtney: 25:48

Huge douche, canoe, both paddles.

Cousin Marc: 25:52

But that you know, like I said in the beginning of this show, that's what people look like. You don't expect them to look like a pleasant person. You know when they're doing monstrous things. You expect them to look like a monster.

Courtney: 26:05

Yeah, A very wise woman told me when I was maybe 18 years old the people who look the most put together are the most fucked up and you should be cautious of them. Oh yeah, and that has lived true in my head ever since it was said to me.

Cousin Marc: 26:20

Most of the nicest people are covered in tattoos.

Courtney: 26:23

Yeah.

Cousin Marc: 26:23

And the most judgmental and the most judgmental people go to church every day.

Hannah: 26:29

A hundred percent agree with you on that, cousin.

Courtney: 26:33

The context that I was having with this person was more about the families that judge and they throw stones from a glass house where they're like look at my perfect family with the white picket fence. She's like when you're looking at those people in their perfect house with their perfect life. There's a mountain of crap underneath all of that.

Cousin Marc: 26:49

Like my mother says, you never know what happens behind closed doors 100% you go, Auntie Bernie.

Courtney: 26:55

Now we have to have that. Auntie Bernie has to come now.

Hannah: 26:58

I love Auntie Bernie. She cracks me up. Yeah, she's a good egg. Are we ready for a card? We have to do pick a card, any card. I already picked one. Are we good?

Courtney: 27:13

All right, are you going to send it to Cousin Mark?

Cousin Marc: 27:14

so he can read it. No, she can read it.

Courtney: 27:15

Go ahead oh good, because she's doing gasp face.

Hannah: 27:18

Okay, all right, I'm weird, I understand. I'm weird Like I have this podcast. I'm weird, we're all weird. We're very weird, I'm shuffling through this deck and I'm like I have like this feeling I I just keep going, I keep going, I keep going, I keep going and I just pick one Holly.

Cousin Marc: 27:33

Is this your next door neighbor?

Courtney: 27:35

No no God, oh my God, that's who I was thinking about doing an episode on Two of Hearts.

Hannah: 27:41

Holly Piernan. Do you know about Holly Piernan?

Cousin Marc: 27:45

No.

Hannah: 27:45

Okay, so it wasn't like an out west here case. It's actually one of the reasons why my mom like freaked out when we would play outside is because of holly piernan. All right, so two of hearts, holly piernan. On august 5th 1993, 10 year old holly piernan was reported missing from surbridge on october 23rd 1993. Her remains were found in a wooded area in brimfield. If you have any info about this case, please call 1-855-MA-Solve.

Courtney: 28:12

I just listened to a podcast about her this week because I was thinking about making an episode, because her name will come up a lot when you're talking about Lewis Lent Her name will come up.

Courtney: 28:23

When you're talking about the disappearance of Molly Bish, her name will come up. So there's a lot of people that they've suspected are connected with Holly, but there's never really anything beyond that. So that's one of the ones that they've suspected are connected with, yeah, holly, but there's never really any thing beyond that. So that's one of the ones that I've been diving down that rabbit hole. So that's super weird that that's the card that you pulled. It's almost like the time we pulled lynn, I know what I was talking about.

Hannah: 28:44

Lynn, did you just have like a feeling in the deck? I had a feeling in the deck weird.

Courtney: 28:49

I wish there wasn't a deck of missing people from massachusetts, I know I two.

Rob: 28:53

I know there's another volume they're coming out with.

Courtney: 28:55

But I I really just love the idea that they did the playing cards to put them into the jails to see if people would talk about the cases. I mean, it's a if you wanders haven't seen. I mean, obviously we pull a card every time, but if you missed the part where we talked about it a way to hopefully get prisoners in jails to talk about anything they might know for leads in the cases I believe you can get them if you just go on Google.

Hannah: 29:18

You can usually type in. Oh yeah, but these are from 2021.

Courtney: 29:20

Yeah, there's a new volume. There's a new volume, I was looking at yeah, they're from.

Hannah: 29:24

oh, they do get them mail at Framingham.

Cousin Marc: 29:28

Plus Ashley Flowers does the deck. She does episodes on all the cards that she has.

Courtney: 29:36

We were looking at getting in the Connecticut deck next, I think, spreading the wealth around to some other places too, especially New England I feel like that's.

Cousin Marc: 29:45

The other show that I had listened to before was Dark Down East, and she's based out of Maine and does all of New England.

Courtney: 29:55

I've listened to a few different podcasts. It's funny because when you're looking up like particular subjects, I find like when you're looking at like when I was looking at the babysitter, I was getting all one area, and then, like when I was looking at the one on Cape Cod, I kept getting all one area. So it's kind of funny how we all kind of gravitate to like doing the most about what's near to us.

Cousin Marc: 30:13

yeah, yeah proximity based, all right. Well, if we can get some of the listeners to throw out a suggestion to me about my next episode, maybe they can do that.

Courtney: 30:23

We'll see what happens you have ideas for what you want, or do you want just a totally random write-in?

Cousin Marc: 30:29

no, probably someone serial killerish well, why don't?

Courtney: 30:32

okay, let's do it this way you come up with three names that you were thinking you might want to do, and I'll put a poll up on Instagram and we'll get them to vote on what one you do next.

Cousin Marc: 30:43

Okay, that sounds pretty good.

Courtney: 30:44

Is something on fire. I'm sorry, cousin Mark. No, no, I can smell something burning Burning, yes, I smell a burning smell burning smell. Well, there's candles on. It's like when you leave the iron on. It's like when you leave the iron on something too long. Yes, oh my God, is there a fire? Hey, hang on, there's a fire.

Cousin Marc: 31:04

Oh boy, don't burn the house down.

Courtney: 31:06

I'm getting water, I'm getting water.

Cousin Marc: 31:09

Holy shit people. They're talking about getting water and throwing water on. Hopefully, everything's okay. I don't know if I should put it on the top or. Oh God, okay, that was just a big flash.

Hannah: 31:24

Pull me out and I'm just going to splash water in that direction. I'm so sorry. Okay, hold on. Okay, back up. Okay, ready? Are you ready? I think so. Oh my God. Okay, we Are you ready? I think so? Oh my god. Okay, we can't do that again. How are we gonna put that out? Cover it Back up, back up.

Courtney: 31:46

Uncle Mark is yelling. We're good, cousin Mark, we're good, oh my god, holy shit, we're good.

Cousin Marc: 32:00

Holy shit, is it good? Someone almost burned down the Wicked Wandering studio.

Rob: 32:07

I hear something is burning.

Hannah: 32:11

Okay, okay, okay.

Courtney: 32:13

The best. Okay, okay, the best part is that was all recording.

Hannah: 32:18

Oh my God, we're good. Okay, oh boy, we do have to go clean up a mess though.

Cousin Marc: 32:26

That's okay. I've been sitting here doing a play by play. Next time there's a kitchen fire, cover it with something.

Courtney: 32:33

Yeah, we were trying to do that, but it was really hot and it was in the bedroom. It was a candle.

Cousin Marc: 32:39

Oh, my God.

Hannah: 32:40

Well, we figured it out, Okay. Well, we love you, bye.

Courtney: 32:47

What was in it that was making it do that? I don't know, Because normally when you toss water on a candle it goes out. I'm glad you stopped it.

Hannah: 32:54

Why, if I stopped it, I feel awful. I just threw water at her. No, no, it's fine, I'd rather keep my house. You want more towels, maybe a towel wipe you can put on. Hold on, let me get that out of here and use it in the sink.

Courtney: 33:08

Yeah, because there's got to be something in that candle that when you put water on it Because I had a candle, do that to me on the stove once and I did the same thing.

Hannah: 33:16

I did it and it went one little burst and then it went out, so I didn't want you to get close to the end of it, dear God. Okay, I was like no, no, no, no, we're still recording. Oh, thanks for listening today.

Rob: 33:35

Wicked Wanderings is hosted by me Hannah and co-hosted by me Courtney.

Hannah: 33:37

And it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick, music by Sasha N. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave a rating and review, and be sure to follow on all socials. You can find the links down in the show notes. If you're looking for some really cozy t-shirts or hoodies, head over to the merch store. Thank you for being a part of the Wicked Wanderings community. We appreciate every one of you.